Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
CCW Methods & Issues => General CCW Discussion => Topic started by: kathy1 on December 03, 2012, 08:57:53 PM
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there are many viewpoints on open carry vs. concealed. I would be interested in hearing your pros and cons?
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Its a mentality issue. Hard to describe.
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I don't see any pros on open carry.
1. It calls unnecessary attention, however for some this might be a pro I suppose.
2. It gives away the element of surprise.
3. It makes one a target.
4. It makes other people uncomfortable.
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I don't see any pros on open carry.
1. It calls unnecessary attention, however for some this might be a pro I suppose.
2. It gives away the element of surprise.
3. It makes one a target.
4. It makes other people uncomfortable.
I agree with 1 & 2. NOWAY on #3. The criminal wants an EASY victim. By OC(ing) you are sending a clear message the criminal may have a short career. #4, dont care if someone is uncomfortable or not. It's not my job to see that they are. Do I OC, NO I do not.
The OC(er) has something over us - google the Turller Drill. (Faster response time)
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Radnor, we can Google and find supporting arguments, testimonials, examples....on both sides as much as we want.
I do believe on #3. i.e. If I were a bad guy, walked into an establishment (truly committed to commit the crime) and saw someone carrying a gun, he or she would be the first one I would be taking down.
As far as carrying about others, this is a personal choice. I do live in a society which I like to make people comfortable being around me. If I can make them feel comfortable by not exposing them to something they are afraid of, don’t like …, I certainly will. So carrying concealed gives me the opportunity to do what I believe on.
I don't see any pros on open carry.
1. It calls unnecessary attention, however for some this might be a pro I suppose.
2. It gives away the element of surprise.
3. It makes one a target.
4. It makes other people uncomfortable.
I agree with 1 & 2. NOWAY on #3. The criminal wants an EASY victim. By OC(ing) you are sending a clear message the criminal may have a short career. #4, dont care if someone is uncomfortable or not. It's not my job to see that they are. Do I OC, NO I do not.
The OC(er) has something over us - google the Turller Drill. (Faster response time)
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Word to the wise:
Open Carry not legal in the City of Dover. Concealed carry only with DECCW.
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I always open carried in the small town I grew up in. Since I spent most outdoor time hunting , hiking or fishing it didn’t attract much attention. Those were the days when everyone knew each other there.
Around here few people know each other and with new cultural norms and political correctness it just isn’t worth the hassle to open carry. I respect those that do and feel as though they are helping to protect our legacy.
I only carry for protection. Out of site – out of mind.
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I OC simply because its a PITA to get a DECCW. I don't really see myself a victim because a have a gun, actually quite the opposite. I'm not saying I'm going out commando but I do carry for protection and often it can be a visual deterent, whereas if I were CCing and was approached by a would be criminal I would have to brandish my weapon to back him off in the best case scenario and I don't think that's looked upon to kindly by the law even though you were being "threatened". If you were OCing that same criminal probably choose another Target. Right or wrong?
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Word to the wise:
Open Carry not legal in the City of Dover. Concealed carry only with DECCW.
Pretty sure you can open and conceal carry in Dover if you have a CCW permit.
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Per Delaware Open Carry web site:
Dover Non-Prempted Ordinance: The City of Dover has a local ordinance which falls outside of the scope of pre-emption which requires a permit to open or conceal carry. Much like Newark is attempting to do, repealing this legislation to rely soley on Delaware law as a source for unified firearms law would be beneficial to both the state, law enforcement and its citizens.
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some quotes from OC
"To me, it is a waste of time to attempt an intellectual debate "
"They're delusional"
"(a happy face banging head on wall) I've spoke my piece over there"
"Seems many on the CCDW site prefer to think they're special "
"anti gun rhetoric"
My thoughts, Both will work, As far as any deterent of having your weapon open, it doesnt stop cops from getting shot at. Plain and simple. The argument OC vs CC is the same as Assult weapons vs hunters rights to own firearms.
Nobody here can be prepared for everything down the road, you can speculate all you want, Its a free country.
My opinion also, is most CC people are alittle more respectfull, the OC crowd posted personal insults to win their side , Did anyone here post that they are delusional ?
Should I say YET?
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Open carry does not make you a target anymore then wearing a so called "shoot me first" vest. It is a myth. I wish I could recall the study so that I can reference it here but it has been shown through interviewing criminals already in jail that they will avoid someone they know to be armed and search for easier prey. A quick Google search will reveal stories of the presence of an armed citizen causing would be robbers to go the other way. I could care less what others think when I open carry (about half the time in warmer weather) just I would not care what others think when I wear my Jesus sweatshirt.
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This discussion is about optics. The objective of the open carry advocate is to present a holstered firearm as part of their appearance. The presentation is not, however, only the appearance of a holstered firearm. The person bearing the firearm is the biggest part of the picture.
Some OC advocates in public are dressed well, maintain a healthy posture and exhibit behavioral hints that they may be competent and in charge. The U.S. Secret Service always looks awesome if not intimidating, and the specter of controlled deadly force is, for some, romantic.
Face it. Some people do not have the presence of mind, the self reflective attributes or the presented image that evokes a feeling of trust or competence. Anyone seen the bounty hunter looking guy with the leg holster around town? What an embarrassment. That image telegraphs bad news in anybody’s book. I say: Be honest with yourself and look in the mirror in your head as well as the one on the wall.
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The issue of open carry in Dover, is rather muddy. Dover code, Sec. 70-2, is not really clear. It at least says, you need a CCW to to carry a loaded gun in Dover.
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Its a mentality issue. Hard to describe.
It's not just a "mentality issue", it's a financial, privacy, and rights issue. Delaware is one of the few states that does not regulate openly carried firearms, save for the restrictions on felons and certain state properties. It does, however, bend its citizens over and force them to submit to CC as a "privilege" instead of a right. It costs your money and privacy just for the chance to be denied the "privilege" of being able to carry how you wish.
To be honest, however, I'm not interested in rocking that boat in the near future, as it is now approvals are running high even if the system is counter intuitive to the concept of 2a rights.
What I am interested in is dispelling this ridiculous notion that people who OC are worthy of disparagement because they're loose cannons, wackos, or otherwise. That cannot be any farther from the truth. In fact, I'd wager just the opposite. I believe many who OC are informed, knowledgeable and responsible adults who, for various reasons, have decided that their preferred method of carrying is openly. Of course, every group has its lowest common denominators, and pro-cc/oc groups are no strangers. There's tactical mall ninjas everywhere. But to think they represent the whole lot is quite naive.
I would hope that, regardless of how you carry, you could recognize the term 'Shall Not Be Infringed', for exactly what it is. We can go back and forth all day arguing about Coke and Pepsi, but when we talk about who's got the right to drink Pepsi, we have to recognize that the position we stand on (for pro-CC only proponents) is one built on the idea that you cannot drink Pepsi unless you submit to rules and regulation that wholly infringe upon 2a rights enshrined in the constitution. That is the line of thinking followed by liberal kool-aid drinkers and the blowhards from the Brady bunch.
Lets all play on the same team, regardless of preferences and political affiliation.
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I will always defend the right to open carry. It's just not for me. I also worry that the way politics are in this state, if open carry gets too much attention, some politician will want to outlaw it.
I'll consider open carry if there is some sort of natural or man made disaster with a breakdown of law and order.
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kudos to Dr. Eastwood. And, I agree with those who say that this decision is one of personal preference, based on input to date. Initially, I was just wondering if there was some good, hard data out there that said OC (or CC) is more beneficial because: 1- Improved speed of draw; 2-etc.. etc., if you catch my drift. I'm new to this whole environment and the only way to learn--in my book--is to ask questions, digest the feedback, weigh the risk vs. benefit and make a decision. Thanks everyone for the constructive comments and input.
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http://www.annarbor.com/news/crime/unarmed-man-attempts-to-rob-emu-student-carrying-holstered-gun/
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=related&v=zx_YUO4SzcY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dzx_YUO4SzcY%26feature%3Drelated
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http://www.annarbor.com/news/crime/unarmed-man-attempts-to-rob-emu-student-carrying-holstered-gun/
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=related&v=zx_YUO4SzcY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dzx_YUO4SzcY%26feature%3Drelated
Both examples of poor situational awareness. It could easily happen to anyone carrying concealed who is accosted at knife/gun point. They're going to lose the weapon. However, of the two cases you posted, only one of them lost the weapon.
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Absolutely, the one who did not loose the weapon had help from a bystander.
Also, your comparison with the concealed carry, how would someone try to steel your gun, target you for your gun, if they don't know you have one - concealed?
Situation awareness is very important, but it will not help you once you have been identified as a target.
Edit: Furthermore, I wonder how many times the two victims on the example I posted mentioned situation awareness when proposing OC...
http://www.annarbor.com/news/crime/unarmed-man-attempts-to-rob-emu-student-carrying-holstered-gun/
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=related&v=zx_YUO4SzcY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dzx_YUO4SzcY%26feature%3Drelated
Both examples of poor situational awareness. It could easily happen to anyone carrying concealed who is accosted at knife/gun point. They're going to lose the weapon. However, of the two cases you posted, only one of them lost the weapon.
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Then there is this.
Matt Brannan and J.P. Mitchell were dining in the Wafflehouse on Barrett Parkway at I-575 in Kennesaw at 4:45 in the morning recently when a scout for an armed robbery crew entered the restaurant to case it. At the time, Matt and J.P. thought he looked a little suspicious, as he was wandering around the small restaurant like he was looking for someone. Unknown to Matt and J.P., two cars full of armed robbers were parked behind the restaurant waiting for the scout's report.
The scout saw that two of the customers were wearing holstered 1911 Springfield Mil-Spec .45 pistols, and he immediately turned and left the store.
http://www.examiner.com/article/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw (http://www.examiner.com/article/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw)
We can all give examples to support our personal views. The bottom line is carry how you feel comfortable, it does not matter what others think. No two robberies or attacks are the same so no one single strategy will work for everything. We all play the averages on how we think we will most likely have to defend ourselves.
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Situation awareness is very important, but it will not help you once you have been identified as a target.
I disagree. That is the whole purpose of situational awareness. Once you are identified as a target situational awareness could help you identify suspicious actions of those around you. If you are being followed, if someone approaches you too quickly in a dark parking lot, if a group splits up and individuals move as if to cover you flank are all signs that situational awareness should identify and allow you to take precautions.
There are attacks that situational awareness will not or cannot detect and in those cases it does not matter if you carry open or concealed.
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That is the only example I've seen on the web where OC was a "deterrent." I also wonder if the police had not taken the cars if they would've not waited to make the two guys a target and take their guns.
As far as the statistics, sorry for the sarcasm but, the guys on my example missed the memo.
Again, IMO it does matter what others think and how they feel when out with their families.
Then there is this.
Matt Brannan and J.P. Mitchell were dining in the Wafflehouse on Barrett Parkway at I-575 in Kennesaw at 4:45 in the morning recently when a scout for an armed robbery crew entered the restaurant to case it. At the time, Matt and J.P. thought he looked a little suspicious, as he was wandering around the small restaurant like he was looking for someone. Unknown to Matt and J.P., two cars full of armed robbers were parked behind the restaurant waiting for the scout's report.
The scout saw that two of the customers were wearing holstered 1911 Springfield Mil-Spec .45 pistols, and he immediately turned and left the store.
http://www.examiner.com/article/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw (http://www.examiner.com/article/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw)
We can all give examples to support our personal views. The bottom line is carry how you feel comfortable, it does not matter what others think. No two robberies or attacks are the same so no one single strategy will work for everything. We all play the averages on how we think we will most likely have to defend ourselves.
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I disagree, once someone has identified you as a target because they know you are armed, because they see you, your situation awareness is not relevant as the bad guy will have a plan of attack that you are not aware of - i.e. approach you with a gun on your face asking you to surrender yours, or create a situation to be close enough to grab your gun - see two examples I provided. Situation awareness if very important, but once you are the target it will not help much. Again, that is my opinion.
Situation awareness is very important, but it will not help you once you have been identified as a target.
I disagree. That is the whole purpose of situational awareness. Once you are identified as a target situational awareness could help you identify suspicious actions of those around you. If you are being followed, if someone approaches you too quickly in a dark parking lot, if a group splits up and individuals move as if to cover you flank are all signs that situational awareness should identify and allow you to take precautions.
There are attacks that situational awareness will not or cannot detect and in those cases it does not matter if you carry open or concealed.
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I disagree, once someone has identified you as a target because they know you are armed, because they see you, your situation awareness is not relevant as the bad guy will have a plan of attack that you are not aware of - i.e. approach you with a gun on your face asking you to surrender yours, or create a situation to be close enough to grab your gun - see two examples I provided. Situation awareness if very important, but once you are the target it will not help much. Again, that is my opinion.
Concealed carry or open carry, a gun is a not a ticket of immunity, you should avoid becoming a target before it happens. The same outcome would occur if you had a gun pulled on you before you had a chance to react, the gun gets stolen OC or CC. Unless you think you're Charles Bronson. Then you get dead. ::)
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Looks like we agree on something here, Dr. Eastwood ;)
I disagree, once someone has identified you as a target because they know you are armed, because they see you, your situation awareness is not relevant as the bad guy will have a plan of attack that you are not aware of - i.e. approach you with a gun on your face asking you to surrender yours, or create a situation to be close enough to grab your gun - see two examples I provided. Situation awareness if very important, but once you are the target it will not help much. Again, that is my opinion.
Concealed carry or open carry, a gun is a not a ticket of immunity, you should avoid becoming a target before it happens. The same outcome would occur if you had a gun pulled on you before you had a chance to react, the gun gets stolen OC or CC. Unless you think you're Charles Bronson. Then you get dead. ::)
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Then there is this.
Matt Brannan and J.P. Mitchell were dining in the Wafflehouse on Barrett Parkway at I-575 in Kennesaw at 4:45 in the morning recently when a scout for an armed robbery crew entered the restaurant to case it. At the time, Matt and J.P. thought he looked a little suspicious, as he was wandering around the small restaurant like he was looking for someone. Unknown to Matt and J.P., two cars full of armed robbers were parked behind the restaurant waiting for the scout's report.
The scout saw that two of the customers were wearing holstered 1911 Springfield Mil-Spec .45 pistols, and he immediately turned and left the store.
http://www.examiner.com/article/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw (http://www.examiner.com/article/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw)
We can all give examples to support our personal views. The bottom line is carry how you feel comfortable, it does not matter what others think. No two robberies or attacks are the same so no one single strategy will work for everything. We all play the averages on how we think we will most likely have to defend ourselves.
I saw this example too. Had it posted and was just about ready to click the button. Decided to abort the post (waste of time).
Soon think a little of this will be needed. (http://www.bizrice.com/upload/20120410/TS271_thread_locking_adhesive.jpg)
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Being aware may not prevent you from being attacked, in all situations, but may allow you time to repel an attack. Being aware may also, as Dr. Eastwood said, allow allow you to not get into a situation, where you can be attacked. All situations are different, but being aware is a hell of alot better than being dumb.