Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
CCW Methods & Issues => General CCW Discussion => Topic started by: NormH3 on August 17, 2016, 09:15:29 PM
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I've been looking at different states that Delaware recognizes. WV only requires a simple form. Fill it out. Take it to the local sheriff. He signs off and forwards to the WVSP. No requirement for training. No ad in a paper. No references. Pretty cut and dry. Now here they make a residence take a course (not a bad thing), take out an ad and give 3 local references. How can Delaware except WV CCW holders and have Delaware citizens jump through all kinds of hoops. Sumthin' ain't right. (I know preaching to the choir)
http://www.wvsp.gov/forms/Documents/CWP44A.pdf
EDIT: forgot no fingerprints.
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Actually you need 5 references in Delaware.
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I stand corrected. It still doesn't make sense to me. Oh well. Unfortunately, if I was to make a complaint about it, Delaware would probably just break ties with WV.
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Thought I would get a few more comments and opinions on this. No one else feels slighted by the state that a non-resident can carry here easier than a resident?
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There are countless ways that I am offended by the State, the County, and simply put -- most of the short-bussers that I encounter once I leave the house. The West Virginia situation, though, does not rise to the level of causing me more alarm.
I am not sure of West Virgini's current permitting system, but earlier this year West Virginia switched to being a "constitutional carry" state -- so no permit at all. I haven't looked, but they may have kept the permits for recipricocity (for those wanting to take advantage of such a thing).
As bad as Delaware's process may be, it is less instrusive and costly than many. It is a may-issue that effectively operates as a shall-issue, as long as there are no hiccups (or ex-wives) in a person's past. And the only major obstacle added in the last twenty years was the training requirement. We're also lucky (I know, I know -- I just puked after typing that word) in the fact that we don't need a road map of places where we can and cannot carry. For the most part, strap it on, walk out of the house -- and you're good. Of course, I always see darkness in the sky, due to our proximity to America's dual-anus area (Jersey and Maryland -- which gains further support from DC and New York).
Personally, if I were to go to battle for any recipricocity issue -- it would be for Maryland.
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There are countless ways that I am offended by the State, the County, and simply put -- most of the short-bussers that I encounter once I leave the house. The West Virginia situation, though, does not rise to the level of causing me more alarm.
I am not sure of West Virgini's current permitting system, but earlier this year West Virginia switched to being a "constitutional carry" state -- so no permit at all. I haven't looked, but they may have kept the permits for recipricocity (for those wanting to take advantage of such a thing).
As bad as Delaware's process may be, it is less instrusive and costly than many. It is a may-issue that effectively operates as a shall-issue, as long as there are no hiccups (or ex-wives) in a person's past. And the only major obstacle added in the last twenty years was the training requirement. We're also lucky (I know, I know -- I just puked after typing that word) in the fact that we don't need a road map of places where we can and cannot carry. For the most part, strap it on, walk out of the house -- and you're good. Of course, I always see darkness in the sky, due to our proximity to America's dual-anus area (Jersey and Maryland -- which gains further support from DC and New York).
Personally, if I were to go to battle for any recipricocity issue -- it would be for Maryland.
West Virginians need to still get a state permit if they wish to carry in other states that require one. Unfortunately Maryland has reciprocity with no other state and will most likely remain that way until they lift the "good and substantial" reason that is required for a resident to acquire one. Apparently, protecting ones own life or those of a loved one isn't good enough. If a WV resident who has a WV CCW can carry in Delaware with just a simple form and a background check, then as a resident of Delaware, I should be able to do the same. It's a double standard. Case in point, NH Supreme court recently ruled that it was unconstitutional for that state to deny a non-residence a carry permit if they DID NOT already have a carry permit in their home state.
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There are countless ways that I am offended by the State, the County, and simply put -- most of the short-bussers that I encounter once I leave the house. The West Virginia situation, though, does not rise to the level of causing me more alarm.
I am not sure of West Virgini's current permitting system, but earlier this year West Virginia switched to being a "constitutional carry" state -- so no permit at all. I haven't looked, but they may have kept the permits for recipricocity (for those wanting to take advantage of such a thing).
As bad as Delaware's process may be, it is less instrusive and costly than many. It is a may-issue that effectively operates as a shall-issue, as long as there are no hiccups (or ex-wives) in a person's past. And the only major obstacle added in the last twenty years was the training requirement. We're also lucky (I know, I know -- I just puked after typing that word) in the fact that we don't need a road map of places where we can and cannot carry. For the most part, strap it on, walk out of the house -- and you're good. Of course, I always see darkness in the sky, due to our proximity to America's dual-anus area (Jersey and Maryland -- which gains further support from DC and New York).
Personally, if I were to go to battle for any recipricocity issue -- it would be for Maryland.
West Virginians need to still get a state permit if they wish to carry in other states that require one. Unfortunately Maryland has reciprocity with no other state and will most likely remain that way until they lift the "good and substantial" reason that is required for a resident to acquire one. Apparently, protecting ones own life or those of a loved one isn't good enough. If a WV resident who has a WV CCW can carry in Delaware with just a simple form and a background check, then as a resident of Delaware, I should be able to do the same. It's a double standard. Case in point, NH Supreme court recently ruled that it was unconstitutional for that state to deny a non-residence a carry permit if they DID NOT already have a carry permit in their home state.
We have to pick our battles. Frankly, I am not willing to battle over reciprocal arrangements with a non-border state. If we're going to press for something important, that may be one thing. Otherwise, we may end up with the patchwork of places that we can and can't go, or at least moving in that direction -- as the West Virginia statute cited at the very bottom indicates.
It is also important to note that the applicable state for obtaining a West Virginia license to carry a deadly weapon includes a course requirement. That is why Delaware has an agreement with them.
Sorry for the perhaps-difficult-to-read formatting, but not all sites like iPad formatting.
WEST VIRGINIA CODE
§61-7-4.
License to carry deadly weapons; how obtained.
(a) Except as provided in subsection (h) of this section, any person desiring to obtain a state license to carry a concealed deadly weapon shall apply to the sheriff of his or her county for the license, and pay to the sheriff, at the time of application, a fee of $75, of which $15 of that amount shall be deposited in the Courthouse Facilities Improvement Fund created by section six, article twenty-six, chapter twenty-nine of this code. Concealed weapons permits may only be issued for pistols or revolvers. Each applicant shall file with the sheriff a complete application, as prepared by the Superintendent of the West Virginia State Police, in writing, duly verified, which sets forth only the following licensing requirements:
(11) That the applicant has qualified under the minimum requirements set forth in subsection (d) of this section for handling and firing the weapon: Provided, That this requirement shall be waived in the case of a renewal applicant who has previously qualified; and
(d) All persons applying for a license must complete a training course in handling and firing a handgun. The successful completion of any of the following courses fulfills this training requirement:
(1) Any official National Rifle Association handgun safety or training course;
(2) Any handgun safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by an official law-enforcement organization, community college, junior college, college or private or public institution or organization or handgun training school utilizing instructors certified by the institution;
(3) Any handgun training or safety course or class conducted by a handgun instructor certified as such by the state or by the National Rifle Association;
(4) Any handgun training or safety course or class conducted by any branch of the United States Military, Reserve or National Guard or proof of other handgun qualification received while serving in any branch of the United States Military, Reserve or National Guard.
A photocopy of a certificate of completion of any of the courses or classes or an affidavit from the instructor, school, club, organization or group that conducted or taught the course or class attesting to the successful completion of the course or class by the applicant or a copy of any document which shows successful completion of the course or class is evidence of qualification under this section.
WEST VIRGINIA CODE. §61-7-14. Right of certain persons to limit possession of firearms on premises.
Notwithstanding the provisions of this article, any owner, lessee or other person charged with the care, custody and control of real property may prohibit the carrying openly or concealed of any firearm or deadly weapon on property under his or her domain:Provided, That for purposes of this section "person" means an individual or any entity which may acquire title to real property.
Any person carrying or possessing a firearm or other deadly weapon on the property of another who refuses to temporarily relinquish possession of such firearm or other deadly weapon, upon being requested to do so, or to leave such premises, while in possession of such firearm or other deadly weapon, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than one thousand dollars or confined in the county jail not more than six months, or both: Provided, That the provisions of this section shall not apply to those persons set forth in subsections (3) through (6) of section six of this code while such persons are acting in an official capacity: Provided, however, That under no circumstances may any person possess or carry or cause the possession or carrying of any firearm or other deadly weapon on the premises of any primary or secondary educational facility in this state unless such person is a law-enforcement officer or he or she has the express written permission of the county school superintendent.
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Hmmm.. Who cares? Do you think WV should be removed from DE's reciprocity because they don't have as many steps to get their WV permit? Delaware has had it's currently process in place, mostly, for over 100 years and nothing is going to change that with the political lefties up north in charge. Instead of thinking it's unfair try to be happy for WV folks.
Personally, I have no issues with Delaware's process except for the Published Intent bit. I find that wrong on so many levels but it's not going to change anytime soon. Overall the entire process, while requiring many steps, is not that difficult, time consuming or that expensive. For what it is, were fairly lucky with how the approvals are granted for being a "May Issue" state in the first place.
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Hmmm.. Who cares? Do you think WV should be removed from DE's reciprocity because they don't have as many steps to get their WV permit? Delaware has had it's currently process in place, mostly, for over 100 years and nothing is going to change that with the political lefties up north in charge. Instead of thinking it's unfair try to be happy for WV folks.
Personally, I have no issues with Delaware's process except for the Published Intent bit. I find that wrong on so many levels but it's not going to change anytime soon. Overall the entire process, while requiring many steps, is not that difficult, time consuming or that expensive. For what it is, were fairly lucky with how the approvals are granted for being a "May Issue" state in the first place.
Actually, I care. Yes you are pretty much able to get a CC permit in Delaware if you apply. The fact that you have to put an ad in the paper, get 5 acquaintances from your county to sign off, a set of finger prints, have it approved by the DA and then have it approved by a Judge. Let's not mention a possible 6 month wait for an answer. I get the training part. It behooves anyone who owns a firearm to get training and practice. Then I look at what a WV resident needs to be able to legally carry a firearm in the State of Delaware. Training, a simple one page form, background check by a local Sheriff and info passed on to WVSP. God bless WV residents.
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Hmmm.. Who cares? Do you think WV should be removed from DE's reciprocity because they don't have as many steps to get their WV permit? Delaware has had it's currently process in place, mostly, for over 100 years and nothing is going to change that with the political lefties up north in charge. Instead of thinking it's unfair try to be happy for WV folks.
Personally, I have no issues with Delaware's process except for the Published Intent bit. I find that wrong on so many levels but it's not going to change anytime soon. Overall the entire process, while requiring many steps, is not that difficult, time consuming or that expensive. For what it is, were fairly lucky with how the approvals are granted for being a "May Issue" state in the first place.
Actually, I care. Yes you are pretty much able to get a CC permit in Delaware if you apply. The fact that you have to put an ad in the paper, get 5 acquaintances from your county to sign off, a set of finger prints, have it approved by the DA and then have it approved by a Judge. Let's not mention a possible 6 month wait for an answer. I get the training part. It behooves anyone who owns a firearm to get training and practice. Then I look at what a WV resident needs to be able to legally carry a firearm in the State of Delaware. Training, a simple one page form, background check by a local Sheriff and info passed on to WVSP. God bless WV residents.
I didn't mind the process too much when I went through it: I was self-employed, so nobody I knew spotted the notice in the News-Journal.
My wife, however, works for a large utility company. The day her ad appeared, someone said in a conference room (while everyone was settling down for the actual meeting), "So, _______, I saw your ad in the paper. Getting a carry permit?"
She wasn't pleased, but she made the best of it by turning it into a brief general discussion of the Second Amendment.
Of course, my wife was born and raised in a town that was captured and sacked by the Nazis. She sleeps better with guns & ammo in the house.
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Was hoping to get a few more comments. I guess the "I got mine" holds true here. Think about what I have posted.
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Was hoping to get a few more comments. I guess the "I got mine" holds true here. Think about what I have posted.
Still don't see the huge issue. So its easier to get a permit in WV then it is in DE. Many states its easier. Additionally.. how many WVians do you think are carrying here? I see a couple WV license plates a month so its not many. As far as I'm concerned any other state CCDW permit holder should be able to carry here or in any other state. Hopefully this gets passed within the next few years!
Don't take issues with WV being easy to get and able to carry here. Take issue with the requirements here and if so bad, try to get them changed!
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Was hoping to get a few more comments. I guess the "I got mine" holds true here. Think about what I have posted.
I agree that the inequity seems ridiculous, but I didn't comment because you asked a question I can't answer.
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Was hoping to get a few more comments. I guess the "I got mine" holds true here. Think about what I have posted.
Still don't see the huge issue. So its easier to get a permit in WV then it is in DE. Many states its easier. Additionally.. how many WVians do you think are carrying here? I see a couple WV license plates a month so its not many. As far as I'm concerned any other state CCDW permit holder should be able to carry here or in any other state. Hopefully this gets passed within the next few years!
Don't take issues with WV being easy to get and able to carry here. Take issue with the requirements here and if so bad, try to get them changed!
Well we can agree to disagree. As far as WV residents being able to carry here, It's up to our AG, not their's. Different rules for different folk I guess.
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Was hoping to get a few more comments. I guess the "I got mine" holds true here. Think about what I have posted.
I agree that the inequity seems ridiculous, but I didn't comment because you asked a question I can't answer.
In reality, It is a question for the Delaware AG. However, I'm not going to be that guy and possibly ruin it for WV residents who choose to carry here. :)
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Maybe in the beginning of the year when they are "supposed" to review other states' requirements Delaware will state
"enhanced" only or some wording like that.
http://attorneygeneral.delaware.gov/criminal/concealedweapons.shtml (http://attorneygeneral.delaware.gov/criminal/concealedweapons.shtml)
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Maybe in the beginning of the year when they are "supposed" to review other states' requirements Delaware will state
"enhanced" only or some wording like that.
http://attorneygeneral.delaware.gov/criminal/concealedweapons.shtml (http://attorneygeneral.delaware.gov/criminal/concealedweapons.shtml)
Perhaps. I'm just a little perplexed by the attitude here "I got mine...who cares". I really think I brought some legitimate arguments. Was hoping that more would chime in.
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Well, the little interest may be....
If a DE res is not going to WV, how does DE dropping WV impact them?
Most of us have PA. Currently WV honors PA. They are covered if DE drops WV.
Same question you posted at DELOC has over 200 views and 10 posts.
Guess DELOC people are of the "who cares" mind set too...
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Well, the little interest may be....
If a DE res is not going to WV, how does DE dropping WV impact them?
Most of us have PA. Currently WV honors PA. They are covered if DE drops WV.
Same question you posted at DELOC has over 200 views and 10 posts.
Guess DELOC people are of the "who cares" mind set too...
DELOC is an Open Carry group. My guess is that some could give a rats a** about CC laws. I'm having a hard time understanding why those here don't get my point. I guess we are doomed.
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Bill was passed 2/24/16. Effective 90 days after passage.
http://www.legis.state.wv.us/Bill_Status/bills_text.cfm?billdoc=HB4145%20SUB%20ENR.htm&yr=2016&sesstype=RS&i=4145 (http://www.legis.state.wv.us/Bill_Status/bills_text.cfm?billdoc=HB4145%20SUB%20ENR.htm&yr=2016&sesstype=RS&i=4145)
I am assuming DE AG is not aware YET of the changes. Sure once they know of it, they will make the changes to what DE will accept
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Delaware recognizes other states that do not mandate a license to carry as well. Arizona and Alaska come to mind. Remember that these states and West Virginia all still issue licenses for use outside of the state.
Delaware law only says that the state must not have a history of giving licenses to felons. It does not have to have the same requirements.
I'm not sure what H3s goal is. Is it to stop Delaware from recognizing West Virginia?
The most of hoops that we jump through have been law in Delaware since April of 1911. It's nothing new.
Reciprocity with other states has only been law since about 2006.
It's actually easier to get a license now than 20 or so years ago. They added the training and fingerprinting but extended renewals and made it that references can be from your county. Used to be your election district.
From 1883 to 1911 concealed carry was flat out illegal in Delaware.
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At this stage of permit licensing, I see the glass as more than half full in DE whereas it is empty in NJ, MD, and HI, and almost dry in NY, MA, CT, and RI. The major concern that I have with reciprocity is a lack of a training requirement. WV does require training.
Having lived in MD for 25 years, I'll put with the limits and hoops of DE which are at least surmountable. We need to move our legislators to the right before anything improves here in DE. National reciprocity is the only bright light on the horizon.
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At this stage of permit licensing, I see the glass as more than half full in DE whereas it is empty in NJ, MD, and HI, and almost dry in NY, MA, CT, and RI. The major concern that I have with reciprocity is a lack of a training requirement. WV does require training.
Having lived in MD for 25 years, I'll put with the limits and hoops of DE which are at least surmountable. We need to move our legislators to the right before anything improves here in DE. National reciprocity is the only bright light on the horizon.
connecticut actually issues through the mail to non residents and is effectively shall issue. No reciprocity though.
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At this stage of permit licensing, I see the glass as more than half full in DE whereas it is empty in NJ, MD, and HI, and almost dry in NY, MA, CT, and RI. The major concern that I have with reciprocity is a lack of a training requirement. WV does require training.
Having lived in MD for 25 years, I'll put with the limits and hoops of DE which are at least surmountable. We need to move our legislators to the right before anything improves here in DE. National reciprocity is the only bright light on the horizon.
I agree with that, but why does it take 6 months or more to get an approval? I get it that Delaware is almost "shall issue", but with today's technology it shouldn't take more than a month for approval.
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Maybe it's time we ALL start writing our elected officials.
http://deccw.com/index.php?topic=4561.0 (http://deccw.com/index.php?topic=4561.0)
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I agree with that, but why does it take 6 months or more to get an approval? I get it that Delaware is almost "shall issue", but with today's technology it shouldn't take more than a month for approval.
Its political and controlled via funding. Background checks and done by officers assigned to this job in rotations and other duties come first. 99% of the time the applications are collecting dust. The lack of a dedicated staff is due to lack of funding which is due to the political Left controlling the state.
The entire process could be done in minutes but that wouldn't fit in with Delaware's politics.
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I agree with that, but why does it take 6 months or more to get an approval? I get it that Delaware is almost "shall issue", but with today's technology it shouldn't take more than a month for approval.
Its political and controlled via funding. Background checks and done by officers assigned to this job in rotations and other duties come first. 99% of the time the applications are collecting dust. The lack of a dedicated staff is due to lack of funding which is due to the political Left controlling the state.
The entire process could be done in minutes but that wouldn't fit in with Delaware's politics.
Exactly. How about those that went through the 6 month process write their representatives and express their feelings. i wrote mine and his reply was send me data and I will check into it. How sad is that. Whether or not I voted for him, is he not working for me and those that feel the same?
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Wait.. you don't actually think any politician is really working for you do you?
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Wait.. you don't actually think any politician is really working for you do you?
Some times I live in a pipe dream. Just slap me. :)
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Wait.. you don't actually think any politician is really working for you do you?
Some times I live in a pipe dream. Just slap me. :)
Here ya go in the classic style ;D
(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/65196736.jpg)