Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
General Gun Discussion => Rifles and Shotguns => Topic started by: fdegree on June 30, 2011, 10:54:26 PM
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I'm considering a shotgun for home defense. But, I don't know much about shotguns. So, I'm wondering what is the best gauge shotgun for home defense...and why?
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I would say #4 - #8 range, otherwise you will be risking overpenatration.
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I would say #4 - #8 range, otherwise you will be risking overpenatration.
;D :D :o
I know the argument has been absolutely beat to death, but I'm still not absolutely convinced a shotgun for HD gives any real advantage over a pistol. One of my friends and I were discussing it one day (he keeps a shotgun for HD) and one of his comments was that he didn't have to worry about trying to aim, he could just point and shoot... I'm sorry but that's just not right... Sure you can point and shoot, and you very well may hit your target, just as you could with a pistol doing the same, but the fact is, at CQB ranges those pellets aren't gonna spread much more than the bore they came out of. It's not like you're going to shoot at something a few feet away and see a human size spread come out of the thing... LOL...
I mean don't get me wrong... There is no arguing the take down power of 00 coming out of a 12ga. I won't argue that for a moment... I just feel like I can grab my pistol and maneuver with it (if need be) and get on target with it quicker and more accurately than a shotgun. It might not have the same power, but a double-tap from the pistol with HST rounds is gonna make 'em pause and think about the situation... ;)
Just my two cents...
With that said, getting back to the OP, just because I don't see where they offer a huge advantage over pistols, doesn't mean they aren't good for HD... Because they certainly are!
As for your question, I can't see any reason NOT to go with 12ga.
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Well, here's my two cents for what it's worth. When I got my Mossberg 500A, I bought it and THEN did research... yeah. :) So, hopefully I can save you some time.
I'd go for a 12 gauge pump action shotgun with an 18″ barrel and a magazine capacity of 6 shells or more. 12ga shells are amazingly effective when loaded with 00 buck. Aside from an 18″ barrel being min length, it's short enough that it's not too cumbersome. A pump action is very reliable and makes it easy to store safely but still ready to use. Also, the risk of over penetration through exterior walls is lower than with a rifle or handgun.
Once you have your shotgun, you might want to pick up some Ghost Ring Sights and a tactical light.
Moosie
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I think shotguns serve fine as part of a HD plan, just as a handgun and carbine does. IMHO gauge is not as important as make and model. The gun will probably be shot very little once youve patterned it and until you stub your toe on it you prob will never oil it. I would go with a pumpgun over and auto because there is little chance that neglect will keep it from functioning. There is not a large drop off in pellet count from 12 ga to 20 ga but there is a noticeable reduction in recoil. If I were to go with a pistol grip only shotgun I would lean towards a 20 just to reduce the chance of taking a shot at 0 dark 30 and my sleepy self losing control of the gun. If your just looking at a standard home defense gun I would say either a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 in 12 gauge. Both are inexpensive, plentiful and available in a million configurations.
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Thanks for the responses.
In close quarters, is there enough of a difference between 12 and 20 ga?
If there is little difference, wouldn't the better choice be the 20 ga. since it has less recoil?
No one mentioned 410...how would that compare?
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If you're worried about recoil, purchase some "home defense" rounds that have less recoil. In my opinion, I'd opt for the 12ga simply because you can pack a bigger and better punch for the round. 20 ga has smaller shot and doesn't leave as much room for "error" when trying to hit your target.
As GunEnvy posted, you should also realize that a shotgun plays a PART of your HD plan... it shouldn't be the entire plan.
Just my two cents.
Moosie
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I think when Moosie says the shot is smaller she meant less of it, as the shot size itself is the same whether in 12, 20 16,ga and so on. 410 in my opinion is not a good home defense option at there is just so little shot in the shells. The 410 revolvers that are out now are cool as hell but I wont say what I think of them for carry purposes. Here is an interesting link comparing shot count in like power shells for 12ga and 20 ga http://www.supertrav.com/pelletcount1.html (http://www.supertrav.com/pelletcount1.html) Dont hold me to how accurate the counts are but I think it atleast gives an idea of what your looking at. I personally went with a 12ga loaded with # 6 birdshot. Between hunting and clay shooting my shotguns are fired far more than any other gun I own so for me recoil was never in the thought process.
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[...] I personally went with a 12ga loaded with # 6 birdshot. [...]
If I were to get a shotgun for HD, that would probably be the load of choice for HD - much less chance of overpenatration and still making a big mess.
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here's my .129292 Chinese yuan (2 cents American)
I keep my Glock 19 next to by bed and my 870 in the gun cabinet with 6 rounds (00 buck) in the side saddle. i don't keep rounds in the magazine tube when its locked up. both are tools with slightly different applications but when used properly will give you the same results. There is a reason Cops have both... because they are fun to shoot.
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Not enough information for a specific reply. Hands down a 12 gauge is the best if you can handle it. However, many factors have to be considered.
1. Experience of the user
2. Physical strength of the user
3. Age of the user.
4. Health of the user.
Depending on these factors a 20 gauge might be more appropriate.
As for the type of ammo....that is a whole other discussion.
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a 20 gauge with a pistol grip will do just fine. If you can't aim and you need extra pellets of a 12? Give up shooting... Shot placement is every thing... Most criminals when they hear the cycling of a loading a shell, will run.. They will not say to their buddy, HEY, is that a 12 , 20, or 410 he just loaded.
No offense ment to the 12 gauge worshipers.. They work well when shooting threw the drywall..
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I'm a pessimist.
I carry a 10mm Glock 29 and a spare mag. I keep its big brother, a Glock 20, in my nightstand... I would feel OK with the G29, but I don't want to risk forgetting to bring it in there at bedtime.
My wife is such a pessimist she prefers revolvers, carrying a J-frame and keeping a .357 Magnum in her nightstand...
That's not pessimistic, you say? Well, it's an 8-shot revolver.
So, when it comes to shotguns for home defense -- meaning that the handguns have proven inadequate, or there are apparently enough visitors that we bypass them entirely -- mine is a Saiga-12 with nine rounds of #00 buck, and my wife has a Mossberg 500 with five 1-oz. slugs.
I'm not arguing that a 20-gauge is inadequate. I'm simply saying that, in the awful event that we need to kill, we prefer overkill.
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I think when Moosie says the shot is smaller she meant less of it, as the shot size itself is the same whether in 12, 20 16,ga and so on. 410 in my opinion is not a good home defense option at there is just so little shot in the shells. The 410 revolvers that are out now are cool as hell but I wont say what I think of them for carry purposes. Here is an interesting link comparing shot count in like power shells for 12ga and 20 ga http://www.supertrav.com/pelletcount1.html (http://www.supertrav.com/pelletcount1.html) Dont hold me to how accurate the counts are but I think it atleast gives an idea of what your looking at. I personally went with a 12ga loaded with # 6 birdshot. Between hunting and clay shooting my shotguns are fired far more than any other gun I own so for me recoil was never in the thought process.
Yes, that's what I meant. Thanks for clearing it up.
Moosie
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Thanks again for all of the responses!!!!
Don't know if my situation will change anyone's thoughts...probably should have posted this in the original post
- Me = 6' 0" - 225 lbs. - strength handling the recoil...not a problem
- Wife = 5' 5" - 150 lbs. - health problems...may have difficulty handling the recoil
- Daughter = 9 years old - working with a BB gun to learn the finer points of gun safety - soon hope to graduate to a .22 - she has expressed an interest in hunting
Can't afford multiple guns for multiple players. So, I hope to get something that is manageable for everyone, yet effective too.
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Sorry i lost track of the topic at hand, I have a 12 gauge 870 because well when i saw it i wanted it, and i walked out of X ring with a shotgun that i hand no intention of buying one hour earlier.
I digress... IMHO worrying about what is the best gauge for home defense may be the wrong way to look at it. A 20, 16 or 12 gauge will all get the job done. But can you wife / significant other handle it if they needed to? Then there is make / model and how you are going to accessorize it. Go shooting with your friends shoot a couple shotguns semi / pump with different loads slug buckshot and bird-shot and find what you like and what is most comfortable for you to handle... that is what you should go with, then you should try to figure out which load to use in you home.
just my .129292 yuan
Can't afford multiple guns for multiple players.
If you could afford it would it be necessary? just the thought having his and hers shotguns on different side of the bed-frame makes me chuckle a little. I know as a responsible parent and gun owner you wouldn't leave a firearm lying around where your kid could and most likely would find it.
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I think one should "worry" (consider) everything - application, ergonomics, weapon, caliber... It is VERY important to not only ask questions but also read - there are lots of info on application, ballistics, .... when one decides to get a gun, ammo, ... it is important to research and know everything you can about the platform you are getting, the ammo you are choosing.... The are many boards on the web dedicated to particular firearms, choice of gear, application, ammo....you name it. Sometimes, many I would say, the "popular" stuff is not the best choice, just better advertised. I usually look what professionals use and what they have to say - professional shooters, special ops, special forces, SWAT...
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I'm not arguing that a 20-gauge is inadequate. I'm simply saying that, in the awful event that we need to STOP THE THREAT, we prefer overkill.
I fixed it for you..
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For me, 12 gauge is the way to go. .410 if I'm being attacked by clay pigeons.
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It sounds to me that what we need is a MAJOR DCC "shotgun" range trip- everyone bring out what you've got and we, I mean... fdegree, can try them all- (especially that Saiga of Oldgrays)! It would be ashame if fdegree doesn't get just what he needs! When and where... I'll bring my 590A1... (and maybe some other stuff too)! Pete D.---
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Sign me up, Pete.
I only wish someone on the forum had a safe outdoor venue where we could really let loose...
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Thanks again for all of the responses!!!!
Don't know if my situation will change anyone's thoughts...probably should have posted this in the original post
- Me = 6' 0" - 225 lbs. - strength handling the recoil...not a problem
- Wife = 5' 5" - 150 lbs. - health problems...may have difficulty handling the recoil
- Daughter = 9 years old - working with a BB gun to learn the finer points of gun safety - soon hope to graduate to a .22 - she has expressed an interest in hunting
Can't afford multiple guns for multiple players. So, I hope to get something that is manageable for everyone, yet effective too.
You'd be AMAZED at how LITTLE a 12ga can actually kick with the right recoil system... ;)
In fact, I think there are few that would argue that the AA-12 is the best shotgun for home defense... :o ;D :D :P
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I have always been a fan of the 870"s . They just keep shooting, but I purchased a beretta 12 ga with the kick off and that thing dosent hardly kick at all. ( atleast compared to the 870"s). I hunt with it and I am amazed at all the mud and grass that can get in it when waterfoul hunting but it has NEVER let me down. The problem is I cant seem to hit as many birds with it as a cheaper gun ???. I think it has something to do with the shims in the stock but anyhow,,, Im just saying they shoot nice .
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Yup... After shooting a Stoeger M3500 recently I'm getting ready to get one myself. A 3 1/2" magnum in it without the recoil reducer is BRUTAL (it's an inertial system rather than gas), but with the recoil reducer it's pretty sweet...
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It sounds to me that what we need is a MAJOR DCC "shotgun" range trip- everyone bring out what you've got and we, I mean... fdegree, can try them all- (especially that Saiga of Oldgrays)! It would be ashame if fdegree doesn't get just what he needs! When and where... I'll bring my 590A1... (and maybe some other stuff too)! Pete D.---
This is an absolutely wonderful offer, and I wish I could reliably commit to it. Unfortunately, I can not make any promises. I mentioned in one of my previous posts that my wife has health problems...she was diagnosed with brain cancer back in March, and we are taking everything one day at a time. Right now, my priority is my family...especially my wife and 9 year old daughter.
With that being said, don't let my situation stop you folks from getting together and posting your personal findings and opinions.
Please keep this thread going...I'm still learning.
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Dude, I'm so sorry to hear that. I'll be praying for her and for your family. Thanks for letting us know what's happening with you. My 590 is yours for the asking- seriously, PM me so we can hook up asap- this 12 gauge will do your family right so you have one less thing to worry about!! Hang in there, Pete D.---
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Fdegree, sorry to hear about your wife.
Will add my .02.... Dont like SG for HD at all. Too long of a gun for clearing rooms / house.
(HOPE YOU DONT) But in middle of night you hear that bump that wakes you. You grab you SG. Call out family is safe. Now you start "slicing the pie" to get out and investigate. OK made it out of the bed room. Now cautiously down hallway. Zombie is in bathroom (door open). Other side is linen closet, wall whatever (you're in a hall way). There is a MINIMUM of 18 inches (barrel) BEFORE you can see around the doorway AND that SAME 18 inches of barrel the zombie can grab from the side and push into far wall (he wants to stay safe to rob again) now struggle. Try a walk through with a broom and spouse as a BG.
Another thought... Think about the exit of your bed room into hallway. Do you make a right turn to go down it? Most of you are righties?? OK, so we need to clear the house. To clear that barrel and get into hallway ALL of your body is out in the OPEN! "IF" you should shoot, what is your target area? Center mass, right? Well if the zombie is armed, what is his....??? "IF" the zombie is in the bathroom (to your right), is he using the door frame as cover to protect his center mass (remember, wants to rob again...). So, only a little PART of him will be exposed, but ALL of you.... Just a thought.... After the zombie is down and your waiting for the "to protect and serve", SG has it's place.
The best plan (OPINION) is a safe room (one way in). Something for cover (dresser). Door key attached to a glow stick. CELL PHONE. Call 911 and STAY ON THE LINE DO NOT HANG UP (recording the call). Announce (YELL!) you are armed, if you come in, you WILL shoot. When police arrive, light up glow stick throw them the key. Whatever you use (PLAN), make SURE your family knows the drill. You do NOT want an accidental shooting of a family member!