Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
CCW Methods & Issues => General CCW Discussion => Topic started by: fish0123 on November 17, 2011, 07:02:56 PM
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Hey everyone I'm just starting to research the process of obtaining the permit and I am trying to decide how to go about it. I would like to go ahead and get the class behind me but it would be terrible to spend all that money and be denied a permit. I was just wondering how strict the state is about issuing these things. I have a clear background, never even had a parking ticket, only hitch is that I just turned 21, which shouldn't affect my chances. I have lived in Delaware for about 6 years, so most if not all of my references will be people that I have known for maybe 3-5 years, not sure if that affects anything. Any tips would be appreciated, I am applying in Sussex county by the way.
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Fish,
Per DE law, you do not have to take the class before you jump through the other hoops. However, it may delay your permit slightly, should you be approved.
If you prefer to take your class after you do all the rest of the paperwork, I beleive it's the AG's office who sends you a letter (might be the Prothonotary's) that says, congrats, you've been approved, provided you provide a certificate you took and passed the course.
there are plenty of courses out there that should allow you to take the course almost immediately, but then you have to pass the course, and submit the certificate. As I mentioned, there is a slight delay, but maybe only by a few weeks at most.
Hope this helps,
Moosie
FYI, the permits in DE aren't as hard to get as one might think. If I were you, I'd apply.
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Thanks for the help, I think I will just go ahead and get the paper work in. I was told that it may be a good idea to get my app. in before the first of the year because the state gets swamped with paper work from all of the ccdw renewals.
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Minimum age for being issued a CCDW Permit in Delaware is 18 years of age. I don't know anyone that was denied if they have a clear background. If you opt to take the class prior to your application it may show your determination to obtain your permit. The cost of the class isn't as much as it was a few years ago. Shop around and see what the cost of the class is prior to making your decision.
Everyone that I know that has applied for a permit has taken the class prior to applying for the permit.
Liberty Firearms Training 302-290-9248.
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That's good to know. Im going to get the ball rolling and see if I can knock out the class and send in the app. before Jan. 1
I read that once you have the receipt from you background check you can go ahead and file. This means the background check from the state police doesn't need to be complete to file? This would be great for me because having to wait 6-9 weeks total for the background check would not be good. Do you just include the receipt with the rest of the paperwork? Should I include a copy of the receipt?
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You receipt from the SBI indicates that your background check has begun and that receipt must be included with your application. The CCW application must be submitted within 30 days of being fingerprinted (see instruction #2 from the packet). As for taking the class first, that really does not matter. Both my wife and I were approved prior to taking the class.
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It may speed up the process if you turn in all of the paper work at once. Add some specific reasons as to why you want a permit (carry large sums of money etc.), when you fill out the county form.
When I took my class, we were told someone was turned down by the Superior Court Judge because they only said they wanted to protect themselves and their property.
Do not forget the pictures and to hand in duplicate copies of all paper work, one copy for the court and the other for the Attorney General. Good luck.
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Thanks for all the help everyone. The form says to be VERY specific, but they provide very little space to write, does anyone attach a separate page with their explanation?
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When I took my class I was told to keep to the standard 'For protection of person, property, or both'. So that's what I went with. If they come back and ask for more detail, I'll provide it.
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Delaware Law requires the following statement:
Personal Protection, Property Protection, or Both.
Adding statements like "I carry large sums of money", "I make night deposits", etc. will possibly get you your permit with restrictions. Like "When carrying large susm of money".
Any instructor that has a clue will not devatte from the statement listed in Delaware Code.
Liek I stated before everyone that I know has put the same statement and got the permit without restriction.
Just my opinion.
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I already posted this response in a different thread, but since it's become the focus here, I'll repost it. Hopefully, I dont come off as clueless:
As an instructor registered with the State to give CCDW classes, I sometimes receive updates from Superior Court and and the AG's office regarding CCDW. Heres what I received a while back from a Sussex County Judge:
Dear Mr Marino,
With regularity, I receive Applications for a license to Carry a Concealed Deadly Weapon that state as the reason or need for the permit the following:
"self protection or self defense or protection of person, family and property".
Our application requires that the applicant "be VERY specific" as to why they need to carry a concealed deadly weapon. The above reasons are not specific and are too general. They get kicked back to applicants.
Please let your students know they need to have a good and specific reason to carry a concealed deadly weapon and need to state that reason in the application.
That being said, I've only heard of one person having an app kicked back, but once he added some more reasons, it was approved. I guess it all depends on the mood. Hopefully this helps.
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Delaware Law requires the following statement:
Personal Protection, Property Protection, or Both.
Adding statements like "I carry large sums of money", "I make night deposits", etc. will possibly get you your permit with restrictions. Like "When carrying large susm of money".
Any instructor that has a clue will not devatte from the statement listed in Delaware Code.
Like I stated before everyone that I know has put the same statement and got the permit without restriction.
Just my opinion.
That is what my instructor told me as well...So that is what I went with (as stated above).
That being said; how many permits have you seen that are restricted ? How would that work anyway (eg - only when carrying large sums of money; what would be considered a large sum, etc) - it sounds like total ambiguity.
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Yeah, I went with the "standard" and had no problems. So have a few people I know. By the way, the "standard" seams very specific to me.
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Thanks for the help everyone! I'm getting my references together and had a quick question for you guys that have applied. The top of the page where it asks for the applicants name address etc (my name address etc), do I fill that portion out or does my reference? Just want to make sure everything is perfect before I turn this thing in.
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Fish0123,
You can fill out the applicant name (you) and address on the reference sheets.
Lumspond
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Well I submitted my application on January 5, I know not the best timing. Anyways, the other day I got a letter in the mail stating that I go to a hearing to "review my request for a concealed carry or firearm permit." Has anyone else had to do this? I don't see how there could be anything wrong as I have a clear background and everything.
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Never knew of anyone going to a "hearing". What did you give as your reason to carry???
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I think my reasons were specific enough but who knows. One of my reasons was that I live in a busy area where there have been multiple robberies and an attempted break in. I am concerned for the safety of me and my family. I suspect that it may be because of my age?
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Hopefully it is a minor issue. Keep us posted Fish0123.
If you are denied, you have 10 days to request a new hearing, and bring legal representation. I found a Newark lawyer who advertises such representation. Hopefully you won't need it.
http://www.farren-law.com/Criminal-Law-Matters/CCDW-Appeals-Carrying-Concealed.shtml
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Thanks for the help, the problem is that now after the expense of going through the ccdw process and Christmas, I really don't think I can afford a lawyer. I will just have to see what the deal is at the hearing. I have to admit it has me a little concerned. The only things that I have "going against me" would be that I am 21 and my only occupation is a student. They might just need to see me in person to make sure I'm not one of those nut jobs that brings a gun to school.
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Fish,
If you listed "home break ins and robberies" as your reason, that wouldn't necassarily justify a carry license, as keeping a gun in your home would serve as protection. I think a more generic "to protect myself and my family" would have served you better. If that is the case, be happy the judge is asking for clarification instead of simply denying the app. Good luck.
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Yeah that is a good point, I should have put something in there about returning home and leaving home. Although my other reason should have been sufficient, I said that I go fishing in the evenings in my boat and don't return until after dark. I said I was concerned about being robbed and possibly attacked at these times.
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Please let us know how this progresses...
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Yeah I will keep you guys posted.
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I submitted my application with classes completed, complete references of at least ten years plus for each reference, total complete package for my CCDW on December 20th to beat all the renewals. I have a spotless clean background check and used the standard "For the protection of self, property and family", and got a letter today from the judge that says that my application is being kicked back because I have to be more specific as to why I want to carry concealled because it is an open carry state. I find that this is totally absurd. No questions in my background, classes completed, totally clean references (One being from the pastor of my church for petes sake), and a law that states that I have the right to carry concealled, but it gets kicked back for a better reason? Wow...any one else have this issue?
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As far as I know all of the apps in Sussex county go through one judge. This man has made it clear that you have to be very specific about your reason. I found this out from Mr. Marino that teaches CCDW classes in Sussex County, he read the letter directly to all of us in his class. You shouldn't be denied for this however, the judge will probably just request that you send in a more specific reason.
At least you don't have to go in for a hearing...I have no clue what it could be about because if it is a issue about my reasons then they would have kicked it back like yours.
I have an outside the waist band holster on its way in case my ccdw falls through. I can always open carry, which I plan to do while I wait on my ccdw.
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I submitted my application with classes completed, complete references of at least ten years plus for each reference, total complete package for my CCDW on December 20th to beat all the renewals. I have a spotless clean background check and used the standard "For the protection of self, property and family", and got a letter today from the judge that says that my application is being kicked back because I have to be more specific as to why I want to carry concealled because it is an open carry state. I find that this is totally absurd. No questions in my background, classes completed, totally clean references (One being from the pastor of my church for petes sake), and a law that states that I have the right to carry concealled, but it gets kicked back for a better reason? Wow...any one else have this issue?
What county are you in? I'm in New Castle County. I'm just curious because I just submitted my app on Friday and as per my instructors guidance, I put the generic reasoning down. Nothing more. I'm just curious if it differs county to county as it sounds like from Fish0123 or if I should be expecting my app to be kicked as well? :-[
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As far as I know all of the apps in Sussex county go through one judge. This man has made it clear that you have to be very specific about your reason. I found this out from Mr. Marino that teaches CCDW classes in Sussex County, he read the letter directly to all of us in his class. You shouldn't be denied for this however, the judge will probably just request that you send in a more specific reason.
At least you don't have to go in for a hearing...I have no clue what it could be about because if it is a issue about my reasons then they would have kicked it back like yours.
I have an outside the waist band holster on its way in case my ccdw falls through. I can always open carry, which I plan to do while I wait on my ccdw.
There have been lots of posts going on around here debating this topic. My instructor had gotten word from the judge in my county that they were going to start rejecting permits if the, "For protection of self and property" was used. My guess is pretty much every permit came in with those reasons, and since the application DOES say to be very specific they got tired of seeing the same thing on every form.
When I submitted my application by reason was simply, "See Attached". Because I had an almost full page of various reasons why I wanted to carry concealed. In fact, one of my reasons specifically mentioned that I knew it was an open carry state, but didn't want to draw attention to myself, etc. I know the instructor that gave me my class has posted a few warnings about this happening, but most people didn't believe him for whatever reason. Hopefully this will help solidify what he was trying to relay.
The truth is, they don't really CARE what reasons you give assuming you don't put something silly like, "In case my bitches get out of line." or something like that... ;) There IS a reason they ask for SPECIFIC reasons though... It's to force you to stop and take a minute to THINK about why you want it for yourself... Filling out that sheet of reasons really made me think about a lot of things and really brought out a lot of reasons that I didn't even think of before doing it.
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Come on people. You can think of a reason other than the basic "home, family and property" to carry. How about going to shopping areas, gas stations, other public places where people get mugged or robbed every day. Carrying sums of cash for business or pursonal purchases such as showing cash at yard sales or flea markets is good. In Delaware, nobody needs to carry concealed on their own property while mowing grass of setting in front of the TV.
Also when carrying open on your hip, don't forget, as soon as you put on a coat that covers your gun, you are illegal and concealing. You can't go around in a T-shirt all winter. You would have to put a belt on over your coat to carry a holster to open carry legally.
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To tell you the truth, I can come up with a short novel on the reasons I would like to carry concealed but we were instructed by our trainer to stick with the short and simple. He stated that times were changing and that nothing more was needed. He also stated that in fact being too wordy could get your app questioned more or possibly at the very least be delayed for more research or even restricted. I also read in another thread on this board of others saying the same and that they had the generic on their app that was approved. I'm not sure if this determination varies region to region or one AG's office to another and that is what I was trying to determine. This process is very confusing because it seems there just is no correct or straight answer to any of it. Just case to case.
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I think it really does vary county to county. I just know for a fact that in Sussex you have to be specific. I wrote a half a page on all of the reasons why I need to carry concealed.
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UPDATE: As I stated before, ny initial application was put on hold pending my more detailed explaination as to why I needed to carry concealled because the reason I put on my application was the standard "For protection of self, family, and property." Remember that the judge had stated that the constitution grants us the right to bear arms already and we were free to do so openly in the state of Delaware already and that carrying concealled required a more detailed and valid reason. Well the same day I received the letter from the judge in the mail, I further explained my reasons such as carrying large amounts of cash for my job, etc. The very day that the judge received that letter, he approved my request and had the office call me to let me know that my permit would arrive via mail within the next few days. I do believe that from now on, you are going to have to supply more reasoning behind the request to carry concealled and the standard text on the application will no longer suffice. Keep this in mind. Although the process was tedious, the Sussex County prothonotary office was very quick and very pleasant to deal with. Kudos for those folks! I only wish all government offices worked this efficiently.
On another note, as the judge stated in his letter, " You are already afforded the right to bear arms as stated in the second amendment to the constitution.", I dare to ask why then can certain states such as Maryland deny those rights to the people by not allowing them to bear arms also? I have always read that state laws couldn't supercede federal laws...maybe I'm just nieve.
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Well I told everyone that I would provide an update about the hearing. The reason that the judge called me in for a hearing was because of my age. He wanted to make sure that I was aware of the responsibility that I was accepting, and mainly just see me face to face. It had nothing to do with my application, he said everything was spot on. Apparently I am the youngest person in Sussex county to get a CCDW. I think it is a great idea that he wanted to see me in person, and I respect his decision on the matter.
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I can't even find the rule that the minimum age is 18. I found this:
TITLE 11
Delaware Criminal Code
CHAPTER 5. SPECIFIC OFFENSES
ยง 1441. License to carry concealed deadly weapons.
(a) A person of full age and good moral character desiring to be licensed to carry a concealed deadly weapon for personal protection or the protection of the person's property may be licensed to do so when the following conditions have been strictly complied with:
A person of full age. I know firststatefirearms knows his stuff, so 18 makes sense. Does this judge call in everyone from 18-21? Makes no sense to me.
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Glad to hear it is working out for you guys down south. Now if only NCCo could be as fast! I think just the amount of people we have living up here slows it WAY down but I'm sure some of the employees make it a tad bit slower...... :(. Three weeks almost down and forever to go! Oh well :D
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I have been denied and as far as I am aware I have a clean background. I am a USAF retiree, just retired in Dec and the only thing I am aware of on my record is a couple traffic violations. I am currently employed overseas ( Afghanistan ) and requested a hearing for April when I come home for R & R. Guess we will see what happens when I go to the hearing, I will be representing myself since I cannot afford a lawyer so who knows how this will turn out.
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I have been denied and as far as I am aware I have a clean background. I am a USAF retiree, just retired in Dec and the only thing I am aware of on my record is a couple traffic violations. I am currently employed overseas ( Afghanistan ) and requested a hearing for April when I come home for R & R. Guess we will see what happens when I go to the hearing, I will be representing myself since I cannot afford a lawyer so who knows how this will turn out.
This is terrible! You served your country with your life and retire from doing so and they deny you the right to protect yourself?!?? That is just disgraceful! I hope it works out for you and good luck. When did you actually apply and which county? How long did they make you wait?
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I applied in Kent County before I came back overseas, I am currently back in Afghhanistan as a contractor. I applied back in september/October and I contacted the prothonary on Dec 30th after my wife received the denial letter. She stated that the DOJ recommended denial and the Judge usually concurs with the DOJ. So I then received the letter from the Judge with the denial about 2 weeks later. I was told I could request a hearing and submitted the letter to the judge which was accepted and also stayed until I come back to the states on R & R.
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I have been denied and as far as I am aware I have a clean background. I am a USAF retiree, just retired in Dec and the only thing I am aware of on my record is a couple traffic violations. I am currently employed overseas ( Afghanistan ) and requested a hearing for April when I come home for R & R. Guess we will see what happens when I go to the hearing, I will be representing myself since I cannot afford a lawyer so who knows how this will turn out.
I hate to speculate, but maybe there is an issue with the fact that you are not (currently) physically residing in Delaware. Years ago, my FFL was delayed for a similar reason (out of country due to military commitment).
Also, as far as legal representation, the appeal process should be fairly easy, meaning your legal bill would be small (maybe even a flat fee of an hour or two). Unless they have some concrete evidence against you, it comes down to the investigator's "feelings" that you shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun.
Good luck with your overseas work and your appeal.
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Sounds to me that CorBon is right. If you spend so little time in Delaware, they probably feel you don't need a CCDW for Delaware.
Keep us posted.