Starbucks changes direction on Open Carry in their shops

[Bmel17]

First, let me back up..  I went and read the open letter directly.. my apologies that I had read an article which noted certain parts of his letter. You're correct, he does ask that no firearms be brought into / onto Starbucks property. He didn't ban them. As his letter addresses, yes, it WAS the OC folks (obviously not every single OC'er) that created an issue and they abused the 'Customer Appreciation Day' and made it their own personal political event.  I don't have to tell you how pro 2A I am. However, when individuals go above and beyond to display firearms in a manner that I find to be confrontational, THAT is not helping anyone who wants to see the 2A supported and expanded.  Were they within their rights to open carry?  yes. Did they do so in a manner that would invite those who aren't on our side to support the 2A? No. Not at all.  I don't OC nor will I ever. However, I DO support OC for others...  but like any person who is going to carry a firearm, I think that it should be done so in a responsible manner. I would LOVE to see the 2A become supported country wide and have a firearm in every household...   however, waving guns around simply because we're "allowed" to makes it harder to those who do not currently support our constitutional right to wrap their head around our stance / argument for the 2A. 

I'll still carry in Starbucks.. why? Because it's not an outright ban. It's not against the law (yet).

Moosie

I understand your position.  Just because it is legal does not mean you have to do it.  Same thing I say to the antis about 2A.  I'm not attacking you, I'm only saying blaming the very few people who were carrying long arms or were acting confrontational is counter productive. Like I said previously, the incidents were so far and few between that it wasn't even newsworthy to the liberal media. 

Now the only videos I did see the guys were not being belligerent, waving guns around, or doing anything but drinking coffee! 

Starbucks is anti-gun.  They said it in their letter.  They made no differentiation between CC or OC when they said "no weapons".  Because of that I will not support them.  Ever.  Take a look at their corporate policy that was released as well.

Now what do you suggest to get 2A rights expanded? 

I'm really not trying to sound dicky or anything, I think sometimes my typing and writing style make me seem harsh!

[Bmel17]

Amen.
We need to remember how convenient it is to live in a state with very few restrictions on where we can carry, partly because "No Guns" signs and corporate policies do not have force of law. We can carry in movie theaters, malls, Starbucks, churches, polling places, bars...
Let's keep it that way.

We're better off when we fly under the radar. That does not include carrying openly, which is and should remain legal... but is not necessarily a good idea. If not for the "Starbucks Appreciation Day" publicity, that open letter would never have been written.

So hiding and bowing to the anti-s is your plan? I don't always CC, sometimes I do OC.  When I do I'm not carrying and screaming look at my gun.  I'm not waving it around in the air.  I act the same way when I CC.  It is there for my protection and not for a political statement. 

It isn't very "convenient" to get a CCDW in DE if you really think about it.  Jump through hoops and wait forever. Add in the fees for the CCDW and class and how is that convenient?  Only those "privileged" by the State may do so.  CC isn't a right.

[Cbmarine]

IMO, it is not a matter of bowing or hiding.  The right to carry has come a long way since the late '80s (see Right to Carry History on handgunlaw.us).  I moved here from MD a year ago where I didn't and still don't have the right to carry.  Every time I visit NJ, i appreciate more my right to carry in DE and 36 other states. We, the pro-gun community, tried to make a 2A point at Starbucks and got blowback.  We should be demonstrating why 2A is beneficial to the sheeple rather than exerting the right and concerning/frightening them.  My two cents worth. I'm happy to fly under the radar until then.

[Adrenolin]

McDonalds and Dunkin Donuts

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2013/09/22/mcdonalds-and-dunkin-donuts-both-issue-statements-allowing-guns-in-stores-n1706393

Really.. Starbucks never organized the Appreciation Day as far as I know. This was simply started by some pro 2A people and it took off. Credit should also be given to them for continuing to stay fairly neutral, and they are, on the whole thing. People need to realize just how much this crap can cost them when the anti 2A groups start coming at them. They are still allowing people to carry both CC and OC and even tell their employees to continue to serve us.

Personally OCing a properly holstered handgun is one thing.. OCing a long gun around is just plain brilliant! I'll CC and not call attention to myself.

[Obleo]

Amen.
We need to remember how convenient it is to live in a state with very few restrictions on where we can carry, partly because "No Guns" signs and corporate policies do not have force of law. We can carry in movie theaters, malls, Starbucks, churches, polling places, bars...
Let's keep it that way.

We're better off when we fly under the radar. That does not include carrying openly, which is and should remain legal... but is not necessarily a good idea. If not for the "Starbucks Appreciation Day" publicity, that open letter would never have been written.

Thanks OGG.  You wrote this as I was thinking it.

[Clarence]

I am a 100 percenter too and I agree 100 percent with Moosie and Old Gray

In your face carry is not going to help us.   Open carry certainly has its place and must remain legal as it is our
Natural right and protected by both state and federal constitution

What I am opposed to is the "look at me I have a gun" attitude of some of these activists.

[Moosie]

Bmel, I didn't get the sense that you were trying to be dicky.    I don't care if someone agrees with me or disagrees with me. I dont have an opinion to be popular. That being said, I wish more people were willing to discuss their views with others and not make it personal. I can disagree with someone and still be friends / friendly with that person.  If we all thought the same we wouldn't be called humans.. we'd be sheep.  I have found that sometimes as I'm discussing my point of view I learn something.  Something about me, something about my point of view (more facts, a new argument from the opposition, etc) and it usually doesnt make me change my mind, but it does enlighten me in some way. I'm always happy when I have more knowledge.

I'd have the same thought if I knew someone was cc'ing and then bragging about it, or making it known to the world. I am not anti-open carry (for others).  We're at a time in this country where everyone has gun and gun owners on their radar. We all need to be demonstrating responsible, "quiet" gun ownership.  When I say quiet, I do NOT mean sit down, shut up, and let the head a-hole do what he's been doing. You can convey a fantastic message sometimes just by sitting and being quiet.  I think in most cases of today, that's what we need more of. I need to research the number of individuals and locations of just how many pro-OC'ers were being jerks and waving them in the air..  wave 'em like you just dont care (sorry, couldn't resist! LOL).  I would think if there were only a handful of people who showed up and started crap that the company as large as Starbucks wouldn't feel the need to address things. BUT.. before I speak on that, I'll have to do some more fact finding

As you stated, just because it's legal doesn't mean we should do it. IMO, we are to be educators to those who have misinformation (thank you all the crack pot media outlets..  "AR-Shotgun"). Not only teach those who are just being ignorant, but also those who have no firearms experience at all.  A conversation is sometimes all that's needed to help someone open their mind a little bit more. 

  It's all good, Bmel!

Moosie