Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
State News & Gun News => Delaware News => Topic started by: Obleo on July 03, 2013, 02:07:16 PM
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http://www.wboc.com/story/22747466/expanded-background-checks-in-place-in-del-understanding-the-system
It's a good thing criminals follow the law closely!
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Woo hoo, now no criminals will have guns!
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Hmm, if you as a CCDW permit holder buy a gun from someone who shouldn't have had the gun, do you then have an illegal gun?
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I'm having a blonde, sleep deprived moment. How is this any different than the background check we all go through already. I understand that now all transactions must go through an FFL (which means money out of someone's pocket), but there seems to be a lot of folks up in arms over this one. Am I missing something??
And of course, I'll say it again, that there is no such thing as a "good" gun control bill... (yes, Frank, except for the 2nd Amendment LOL).
Moosie
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This law guarantees criminals won’t even think about legal transfers. Speaking of room in the trunk. Maybe not if that’s where all the street gun sales are happening.
The seller risks losing the firearm altogether if anything flags on his/her background. I understand that back alimony, unpaid parking tickets and back taxes can create a hold on your application.
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It's just another sneaky way of getting more guns away from legal gun owners. It has nothing to do with criminals.
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I have issues with the fact that if there is a hold on the sale the FFL must take possession of the firearm and then you as the owner must go through another background check before you can have it back if the buyer is denied. Oh and if the owner fails for some reason is there reembursment for them? Does the owner need to pay the FFL fee for the background check to reclaim his own property?
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I have issues with the fact that if there is a hold on the sale the FFL must take possession of the firearm and then you as the owner must go through another background check before you can have it back if the buyer is denied. Oh and if the owner fails for some reason is there reembursment for them? Does the owner need to pay the FFL fee for the background check to reclaim his own property?
As I understand the new law this is correct. Hopefully in the next session we can get this amended to make sense.
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OH, one more thing, always by your used firearm from another CCDW or FFL then you won't have to go through all the BS. ;) ;)
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OH, one more thing, always by your used firearm from another CCDW or FFL then you won't have to go through all the BS. ;) ;)
Our Classified section here should be the first thing we think about if looking to sell a firearm. Well, for our CCDW holders anyways.. Of which I'm still not a member yet. :-\ Hopefully the wife and I will receive them soon!
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Ive always sold to someone I know VERY well. Otherwise, I've always made the buyer pay the transfer fee and gone through an FFL. However, I think I just may start to keep everything I buy.
I do think that it is BS that if you, the seller, have a buyer who gets turned down that you then must go through a background check yourself to get your very own property back!!
Thanks, I'll skip all of this and just not sell anything.
Have I told you guys that Wyoming or Montana keeps sounding better and better every day??? >:(
Moosie
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Can't speak for Montana, but we just left Wyoming, and have applied for a mortage pre-qual. Sherrif is top LEO in county. An Elected official. If you are a Wyoming resident, you can CCW "without a permit", on your person or in your car. If not a resident, you can open carry or use your CCW from a state that they are recp with. Of course Delaware is not it...We both have AZ and PA, so we are covered when we go there. Oh yeah, and no state income tax, and cheap property tax too. And you can get a CCW in Wyoming if you are gonna travel, and it is a "will issue state" and like PA, you get it from the Sherrif's office.
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Do I take a little Wyoming promotion form JOET? ;)
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Yeah, I did get a little carried away....
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Can't speak for Montana, but we just left Wyoming, and have applied for a mortage pre-qual. Sherrif is top LEO in county. An Elected official. If you are a Wyoming resident, you can CCW "without a permit", on your person or in your car. If not a resident, you can open carry or use your CCW from a state that they are recp with. Of course Delaware is not it...We both have AZ and PA, so we are covered when we go there. Oh yeah, and no state income tax, and cheap property tax too. And you can get a CCW in Wyoming if you are gonna travel, and it is a "will issue state" and like PA, you get it from the Sherrif's office.
Joet
You are not letting the left run you out of Delaware are you?
If you are I can't say I blame you.
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;D It will be one or the other for me.
Moosie
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No, we intend to keep our place here, and go back and forth. But, it will be a place to go to....there is great hunting and the best fly fishing in the country there, and just think, you will know somebody you can go and visit.
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"As I understand the new law this is correct. Hopefully in the next session we can get this amended to make sense."
This is not the new De. background check law. It is the federal law, when an FFL receives a gun for transfer, he is required to log it in, and it becomes his gun, by fed law. If you take a gun to an FFL for him to sell on consignment, he logs it in, if you decide not to sell it, he has to do the background check before he can give it back to you. The De. law only requires that sales go through an FFL for a background check, the fed law causes all the rest of the problems.
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This is not the new De. background check law. It is the federal law, when an FFL receives a gun for transfer, he is required to log it in, and it becomes his gun, by fed law. If you take a gun to an FFL for him to sell on consignment, he logs it in, if you decide not to sell it, he has to do the background check before he can give it back to you. The De. law only requires that sales go through an FFL for a background check, the fed law causes all the rest of the problems.
Thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding. Anything say what happens if the owner is denied when they go back to get the firearm? Does the FFL have to turn it over to the Feds or reimburse the owner in anyway? Or are they just SOL?
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Sorry this is late, it would be up to the owner to sell it to the dealer, or sell in consignment, or what other deal he and the dealer agree to.
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Is the FFL/dealer required to log it in before running a background check? I understand if they are receiving an item shipped to them for pickup, selling on consignment or from their own stock that it needs to be logged into their bound book and agree with that. I didn't think the FFL had to log a firearm unless they were taking possession of the firearm over night. I know the license is different but a gunsmith can take possession of a firearm for the day and return it without having to log it unless it stays overnight. Shipping a firearm back to the manufacturer for repair, etc doesn't require a background check before they ship it directly back to you.
The laws really need to be updated so an FFL can make a background check before taking possession when doing local transfers between a seller and buyer in their shop. Better yet, the system should be opened to allow the public to call in and do a check. The buyer provides the seller their info who can then call in for a background check on the buyer themselves.
Then again we are talking firearm laws here on a federal and state level. It couldn't be easy or make sense could it. ::)
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The laws really need to be updated so an FFL can make a background check before taking possession when doing local transfers between a seller and buyer in their shop. Better yet, the system should be opened to allow the public to call in and do a check. The buyer provides the seller their info who can then call in for a background check on the buyer themselves.
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NICS is not setup for unaccountable background checks. The process is that whether it is a "proceed" or "deny" from NICS, a code is given to the FFL to annotate on the 4473 and can be audited by the BATFE at a later date. If the BATFE decides to audit for this reason, the FFL just cannot have incomplete 4473 or any other written annotation of the proceed/deny codes give by NICS.
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Thanks for that information. Didn't realize that.
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Thanks for that information. Didn't realize that.
Yeah, the whole NICS "Brady Law" background check was setup to make the FFL the focal and to do that, make it a transaction where he has to log it in and out and the accountability with the proceed or deny transaction codes they are given. No real way to circumvent that process.
The whole intention of NICS was to deny transfer/posession against those who are prohibited. Unfortunately sellers will find themselves after the fact of being a "prohibited person" when they try to regain their property after a failed transaction to another buyer. Still does negate the fact that they are now prohibited. When Brady Law first came into play in the 1990's, many found this out when they pawned their guns and had to do a NICS check to get their property back to only be denied.
With the new state law making all private sales go through a FFL, there is no way to make it off the FFL's books and not do a return NICS check if a private seller has to reclaim his/her property.