Next up..... Magazine limits

[Radnor]

Just received this....

Friends for Jeff Spiegelman,
We really scored a victory on Wednesday.  The background check bill was supposed to be the least controversial part of the anti-gun package.  But the bill has holes that were exposed in committee thanks to the diligence of people just like you.  Darn fine work.  It shows what can happen when the public is willing to stand up to a bad law.  The discussion is not over, and the bill will be back in committee next week, but you all should feel proud of what you have accomplished so far.

On to the magazine bill- Below are a list of concerns that I do not believe are answered in the bill or in other parts of Delaware law.  Please feel free to share this with whomever you like.  Thanks to our victory last Wednesday I have no idea when this bill will come up in committee, but I will keep you informed.

Concerns with the Magazine Ban bill (in no particular order);
1. The law says nothing about transportation.  So what is to stop a person who means to do harm from simply buying a magazine in PA or VA?  If the answer is nothing, then is this law just an inconvenience and does not actually do what it is intended to do?
2. What is the purpose of making .22 caliber magazines illegal?
3. Is a private area typically used for a range, but not necessarily considered a shooting range, excluded?
4. Why are military and police excluded?
5. If I have a magazine with me at a gun range, and I purchase a firearm, will I have to make two separate trips in order to get the firearm and the magazine home?
6.  What if I am on my way to a gun store, but not a shooting range, in order to sell the firearm.  Will I have to make two trips in order to get both the firearm and the magazine to the store?
7. If I borrow a firearm from a family member, will I have to make two trips in order to get the firearm and magazine back to my house but not necessarily to a shooting range?
8.  If a person has intent to do murder with a firearm that accepts a high capacity magazine, is it realistic to expect that person to follow this law?
9.  If I am in a public place and I have the magazines, and a friend or relative has the firearm, will that be a crime?
10.  The use of the term "possession" to mean dominion and authority. This makes regular capacity magazines the same as drugs.... For example, if my roommate has a firearm with magazines in his car. I'm not totally aware of whether they are high capacity or not. They are in my general vicinity/in the car. Am I guilty of illegal possession under the statute?
11. What is the definition of "stored in a manner to prevent its immediate use"?  How will this be enforced if I have the magazine and firearm in the same place?
12.  It has been proven that most home invasion situations happen by multiple people.  It says in the Delaware Constitution that I have the right to protect my self, home, and family.  By not allowing a law abiding gun owner to purchase a magazine capable of exercising this right, is it constitutional?  In other words, is it a violation to deprive a person of a reasonable ability to practice what rights they have?
13.  Police use high capacity magazines because they may have to fight multiple assailants.  Home owners in Delaware often face the same threat.  Should they not have the same fighting chance?
14.  There are tubular magazines that hold more than 10 rounds that are not 22.  Will this law ban those firearms?
15.  How many crimes in Delaware will this law prevent compared to how many legal activities?
16.  The law appears to say that a magazine can be repaired.  Can it be sent back to the factory?  If found defective (many have long warranties) can the factory ship out a new one?
17.  10 round magazines can be easily converted to hold more rounds than would be legal.  How would this law prevent that?  How would the law know if this has occurred?
18.  This law would prevent private sales of magazines.  How would that be enforced?  How would the law know if a magazine was purchased through a private sale if the magazines themselves do not have serial numbers?
19.  Will citizens still be able to exercise their 4th and 5th Amendment rights if questioned by police when stopped with high capacity magazines in their vehicle?  Will high capacity magazines constitute probable cause for searching a person or their property?
20.  Many firearms that would be covered by this bill fall under the Curio and Relic category.  In other words, they are primarily collectors' guns and therefore do not have magazines made for them that would be in compliance with this law.   Will outlawing the collecting of these firearms by default really make the state a safer place?
21. There are events and sports that use firearms with magazines that need to be more than 10 rounds.  Will outlawing these events by default really make the state a safer place?

That is all for now. This is a GREAT list of questions.  I will be sending it to my leadership in the house as well as to the different organizations around the state that are fighting to protect your 2nd Amendment rights.

Thank you,
Jeff Spiegelman 
Representative 11th District
Dover: 302-744-4171
Wilmington: 302-577-8723
Cell: 302-399-7728
Fax: 302-739-2773
Constituent: jeff.spiegelman@state.de.us
Personal: jeff@jeffderepresentative.com
Legislative Hall: PO Box 1401.  Dover, DE  19903
Personal:  PO Box 869.  Clayton, DE.  19938
www.jeffspiegelman.com
www.jeffderepresentative.com

[poster formerly know as Silverbullet]

What "just compensation" ? if you have a gun that holds more than 10 rounds, and there is no 10 round mag available and no one starts producing them, you are just SOL, but there will be no "just compensation."
Best bet is to check the WWW. for even after markets. There will  be a demand and someone will supply. Most US manufacturers have their mags made in another country anyhow. Check the stamping on you mag and see. The gun may be made in US, but the mag could be from anywhere. My Ruger was made in Arizona, but the 2/17 rounders that came with it were made in Italy. I bought 2 /10 rounders from a company in Massechusetts and they were also Rugers from Italy.
I have never read in any proposed law, state or Federal, that anybody will be compensated for anything.
Has anybody else?

English commone law, The principle of most of our laws, bascially states that you are compensated for loss of your property. This is the basis for the government "having to" pay for property taken for public use. The reality is that it does not happen and wont happen here. I am saying that in addition to thinking it goes against the fabric of America "life, liberty and property" and also goes against the constitution. There have been example in our nations history of proprety that has been taken and not paid for.

I just hope and dont think this will be the case.

[Obleo]

Radnor:  Thank you!

[Just Bill]

Haven't you all figured out yet what this is all about???  None of this has anything to do with criminals or criminal activity, it has to do with disarming the general public.  It worked well in other countries, and it is beginning to make inroads here.  Just give us some "sensible gun laws" and we will protect everyone, yeah right.  We(Delaware) used to be one blue county and two red counties.  Well, Kent went blue this time so now is the right time to take away the guns.  They have both houses and the governor, so what's to stop them.  We are all that stand between freedom and ?.  But it has to be peaceful, like it was in Dover, NO MOBS!!!!, just lots of people.

[seniorgeek]

JustBill: you are so right; it is about taking away all firearms from the general public, just like Hitler and others did.

[poster formerly know as Silverbullet]

JustBill: you are so right; it is about taking away all firearms from the general public, just like Hitler and others did.

I agree. What I dont get is why some people get so offended in this debate when you mention the name Hitler as its a face he disarmed people.

Its also a fact when we deal will people like Miller's helping the gun grabbers that there were Jews who voluntarily ( not many) worked for the nazi's thinking it would curry favor. There are sell outs in every group and gun owners should not be suprised to have sellouts amongst us.

[SturmRugerSR9]

HB 58, Magazine Ban introduced today.

http://legis.delaware.gov/LIS/lis147.nsf/vwLegislation/HB+58/$file/legis.html?open

Although it does answer the question posed about altering a "high capacity" mag to only hold 10 rounds, it say "permanently altered", which means it could not be changed back,, right?

[Rabbit]

How come I don't see any exemptions for law enforcement agencies to purchase, receipt or posses. So IF the bill is passed, law enforcement agencies would be prohibited from purchasing high capacity magazines, leaving it up to the individual officers to by their own magazines, if they so desired?   

[poster formerly know as Silverbullet]

How come I don't see any exemptions for law enforcement agencies to purchase, receipt or posses. So IF the bill is passed, law enforcement agencies would be prohibited from purchasing high capacity magazines, leaving it up to the individual officers to by their own magazines, if they so desired?   

I would hope since "equality" is so important to most supporting the mag ban that they would not want police treated different than the rest of us. Just like wanting to let off duty cops carry hi cap mags. I would hope those liberals are not saying one person's life is worth  more than another?

[groundgrid]

Here are a few points that I think to be worth making at the hearings & in the course of e-mail & letter writing:

•   The bill acknowledges that there is a legitimate purpose for large capacity magazines but then seeks to ban them. This simply does not make sense.
•   Large capacity magazines in the hands of law abiding citizens are of absolutely no threat to public safety, yet this bill seeks to criminalize their possession.
•   The bill targets law abiding citizens only. No mention is made of the use of large capacity magazines by criminals.
•   The definition of “large capacity” is entirely arbitrary. There is no proof whatsoever that those magazines above a given capacity pose any more risk to the public than others.
•   The bill will impose a de facto ban on the sale & possession of many firearms that are built to include a magazine with over 10 rounds as standard equipment.  The majority of defensive handguns have magazines that hold over 10 rounds and therefore would be banned.
•   Given that criminals will not abide by this restriction, law abiding citizens are being placed at grave risk.
•   The ban of just about anything in Delaware is totally worthless. Criminals only need to drive into Pennsylvania to buy their magazines.

If passed, I give it no more than a week until "Mags r us" opens up next to one of the fireworks shops that are at the I-95 exits just north of the state line.

[Knotacare]

This compares to limiting the size of a gas tank in a car to keep you from speeding. These people are like horses with blinders on, they are completely irrational.

[TwistedKarma]

   Remember, it seems they dropped to 3 bills in the news for  a while.     Yesterday, in someones news article, they evil black rifles were mentioned as bill #5.   

   So, one last rush for Delaware soon?

[poster formerly know as Silverbullet]

I know this is not popular, but as someone who has had two shoot outs right outside my door I think I more than have the right.

Before they worry about the size of my mag maybe they should look at the culture of poverty encouraged by one party in our state and country. This can be tracked as how many kids grow up ( often without a father in the home) and bascially have no morals instead and think the world owes them something. These kids grow up banging and then often grow up and commit crimes more often than not.

Maybe norplant would be a good idea to keep checks coming. Maybe sticking to the welfare to work plans could help stop some of this. The problem is when you talk about common sense things that can cut back on the violence it often gets met with cries of racism and discrimination especially when one party seeks to keep a solid voting block that will only stay a solid voting block if they are kept in poverty.

I guarantee if we had a gov with some guts who said something like ,,,,OK you are having a rought time. That is ok. You are on the public dough and that is what it is there for. Ok you got pregnant while on public dough, which is really bordering on stealing from the taxpayer, but we are going to give you a chance. You can keep your check but will have to get norplant. There is no reason you should be breeding them if you cant feed them.

There I said it. I know I am not the only one that thinks it, but until issues like the generational poverty and lack of morals that have been eroding since the 70s and 80s we are not going to do well. They can ban guns if they want and all that happens is decent people are sitting ducks for criminals.

[seniorgeek]

This compares to limiting the size of a gas tank in a car to keep you from speeding. These people are like horses with blinders on, they are completely irrational.

I know this is not popular, but as someone who has had two shoot outs right outside my door I think I more than have the right.

Before they worry about the size of my mag maybe they should look at the culture of poverty encouraged by one party in our state and country. This can be tracked as how many kids grow up ( often without a father in the home) and bascially have no morals instead and think the world owes them something. These kids grow up banging and then often grow up and commit crimes more often than not.

Maybe norplant would be a good idea to keep checks coming. Maybe sticking to the welfare to work plans could help stop some of this. The problem is when you talk about common sense things that can cut back on the violence it often gets met with cries of racism and discrimination especially when one party seeks to keep a solid voting block that will only stay a solid voting block if they are kept in poverty.

I guarantee if we had a gov with some guts who said something like ,,,,OK you are having a rought time. That is ok. You are on the public dough and that is what it is there for. Ok you got pregnant while on public dough, which is really bordering on stealing from the taxpayer, but we are going to give you a chance. You can keep your check but will have to get norplant. There is no reason you should be breeding them if you cant feed them.

There I said it. I know I am not the only one that thinks it, but until issues like the generational poverty and lack of morals that have been eroding since the 70s and 80s we are not going to do well. They can ban guns if they want and all that happens is decent people are sitting ducks for criminals.

Knotacare: Perfect example.

Silverbullet: Well said.

I hope we all survive until the next election.

[groundgrid]

Don't wait until the next election.

Write, e-mail or fax ALL of the DE reps & senators TODAY.
Some of them are looking at future political aspirations statewide, they need to know that they won't get very far without our support.

CALL you rep & senator TODAY, leave a message & then call back tomorrow.
Check in with them EVERY DAY to make sure that they know that they are being watched.

If they are on our side, thank them & offer to volunteer to help in the next election.
Make sure that they know that you will spread the word & support them.

If you don't know who represents you, you can find out at this state web site:
http://legis.delaware.gov/legislature.nsf/Lookup/Know_Your_Legislators?open&nav=leginfo

SHOW UP AT THE COMMITTEE HEARINGS IN DOVER THIS WEEK.
Testify (don't be intimidated, it you right to do so). Just tell them why the bill in question will hurt you personally & why it doesn't make sense.
It looks very bad for them if they don't let everyone testify.

There are nearly 224,000 gun owners in Delaware (about 25.5% of the population). This is more than enough to influence any
election in this state. Call EVERY gun owner that you know & tell them to get off their buts.

Most importantly:
If your not already, REGISTER TO VOTE.

This is a small state, take advantage of the legal process


**TELL ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS TO DO THIS**