Author Topic: TAG: "DE Supreme Court Rules RKBA Extends Outside the Home"  (Read 5918 times)

Paladin4CA

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TAG: "DE Supreme Court Rules RKBA Extends Outside the Home"
« on: March 19, 2014, 04:35:09 AM »
In another victory for a broader interpretation of Second Amendment rights outside the home, the Delaware supreme court has ruled that the Wilmington Housing Authority cannot limit the right to keep and bear arms to the interior of its properties.

More at:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/03/daniel-zimmerman/breaking-de-supreme-court-rules-rkba-extends-outside-the-home/

The DE Supreme Court's opinion here:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/DOE_V_WHA_-_SUPREME_COURT_OPINION_U00946381.pdf

The Washington Post, "The Volokh Conspiracy" column, "Public housing tenants have a right to bear arms, even in common areas":

So holds Tuesday’s Delaware Supreme Court decision in Doe v. Wilmington Housing Authority) (Del. Mar. 18, 2014). The court applied the Delaware Constitution’s right to bear arms provision — “A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and State, and for hunting and recreational use” — and the court noted that this language may justify broader protection than that given by the Second Amendment. Still, the precedent is likely to prove influential in other states as well, since the case deals with having guns for self-defense, which D.C. v. Heller has held is covered by the Second Amendment. (If the case had dealt with hunting and recreational use, for instance, the matter might well have been different.)

More at:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/03/18/public-housing-tenants-have-a-right-to-bear-arms-even-in-common-areas/

If this decision can be built upon (e.g., a right to bear arms in public for self-defense), you guys may be going virtual/judicial/constructive "Shall Issue" Right to Carry and this map may be changing again.... :D



But then again, since you've got legal Open Carry the court may say that is the right and you'll have to do what Ohio did in the early 2000s (2003?), to force your legislature and governor to pass Shall Issue.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 03:45:39 PM by Paladin4CA »
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Clarence

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Re: TAG: "DE Supreme Court Rules RKBA Extends Outside the Home"
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2014, 07:34:08 PM »
While this is great news, it is not technically a 2A decision. This is actually a Delaware state constitutional issue.

Our constitution clause is very clear and any decision other than this unanimous one would have been a farce.
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seniorgeek

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Re: TAG: "DE Supreme Court Rules RKBA Extends Outside the Home"
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2014, 12:54:58 AM »
@Clarence, I agree.
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Clarence

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Re: TAG: "DE Supreme Court Rules RKBA Extends Outside the Home"
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2014, 01:22:40 AM »
http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?ID=202890

The decision is a good one when you read it.  I was particularly interested in the way the judges viewed the long history of the right to keep and bear arms in Delaware and how this right has always been viewed as fundamental.  Pages 11, 12 and 13. Show how we finally were able to get an actual constitutional article in 1987.  I'm sure that our friends on the open carry board will be pleased that it is made most clear that Open Carry is a fundamental right.

This decision also apparently means that concealed carry would be legal for residents in the home and the home in this case includes common areas of public housing buildings.

There has been a question as to the legality of concealed carry in your own home without a license.  The law makes no such exemption and there have been arrests for this.  

Not sure how much weight this will have nationally because we actually had lost this case earlier in federal court on 2nd amendment arguments.

One very interesting point was the finding by the court that in Delaware the right to carry had been perceived as a fundamental right since the foundation of the state long before we Article 20 was adopted.

This does add weight to the argument that the RKBA is a pre-existing natural right not dependent on the written constitution.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 01:33:51 AM by Clarence »
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Clarence

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Re: TAG: "DE Supreme Court Rules RKBA Extends Outside the Home"
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2014, 01:45:52 AM »
Paladin4CA:
If this decision can be built upon (e.g., a right to bear arms in public for self-defense), you guys may be going virtual/judicial/constructive "Shall Issue" Right to Carry and this map may be changing again....


I would be less concerned about what color Delaware is on the map.  I see that Connecticut is blue and so is Pennsylvania.  Both have the ability to deny based on character and suitability.

Delaware is pretty much the same and is much closer to those "blue" states than the ones showing yellow like New Jersey, Maryland and New York

If people think Pennsylvania is strict shall issue then they need to talk to the Philadelphia residents who have been denied for parking tickets, being parties to lawsuits and tattoos. 
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Paladin4CA

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Re: TAG: "DE Supreme Court Rules RKBA Extends Outside the Home"
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2014, 04:46:35 AM »
Clarence,

I realize every state has its own "version" of Shall Issue, that's just the way it is in our federated Republic. So any map has to simplify things lest it be too complex to understand.

I also realize that the NRA (and, I hope, SAF), don't stop. They keep coming back to push things further and further in our direction ("frog in the kettle" approach I can believe in...).

Getting back to DE: Is there any push for Shall Issue this legislative year?

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Clarence

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Re: TAG: "DE Supreme Court Rules RKBA Extends Outside the Home"
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2014, 04:45:29 PM »
Clarence,

I realize every state has its own "version" of Shall Issue, that's just the way it is in our federated Republic. So any map has to simplify things lest it be too complex to understand.

I also realize that the NRA (and, I hope, SAF), don't stop. They keep coming back to push things further and further in our direction ("frog in the kettle" approach I can believe in...).

Getting back to DE: Is there any push for Shall Issue this legislative year?





no push for that.  We walked away from a deal in 2006 because of so many amendments.  For now and with the current administration I think most prefer the status quo

Permits are issued to most everyone but denied to people with "issues" like DUI and domestic disputes.  

Philosophically I would like to see Constitutional Carry but that is not in the cards

Due to all of the hoops we jump through, I think our carriers are a more serious and mature group than most Shall Issue states. I might catch flack for saying that, but that is the way I see it.

Because Open Carry is legal I don't see any state court ruling otherwise. 
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 07:17:51 PM by Clarence »
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czspecial

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Re: TAG: "DE Supreme Court Rules RKBA Extends Outside the Home"
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2014, 08:27:11 PM »
Clarence,

I realize every state has its own "version" of Shall Issue, that's just the way it is in our federated Republic. So any map has to simplify things lest it be too complex to understand.

I also realize that the NRA (and, I hope, SAF), don't stop. They keep coming back to push things further and further in our direction ("frog in the kettle" approach I can believe in...).

Getting back to DE: Is there any push for Shall Issue this legislative year?





no push for that.  We walked away from a deal in 2006 because of so many amendments.  For now and with the current administration I think most prefer the status quo

Permits are issued to most everyone but denied to people with "issues" like DUI and domestic disputes.  

Philosophically I would like to see Constitutional Carry but that is not in the cards

Due to all of the hoops we jump through, I think our carriers are a more serious and mature group than most Shall Issue states. I might catch flack for saying that, but that is the way I see it.

Because Open Carry is legal I don't see any state court ruling otherwise. 

I had heard about some of the hoops like not being able to carry certain places if Delaware went "Shall issue". I do think we should be shall issue, but not if it means losing rights. The way Delaware is today I doubt we could be shall issue the way say PA is.

SteveMiller

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Re: TAG: "DE Supreme Court Rules RKBA Extends Outside the Home"
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2014, 11:42:53 PM »
The whole May vs. Shall was less of an issue than references and posting in the paper - both of which were the opposite of concealed.
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