Air travel with firearms - update

[seniorgeek]

Since I am flying this Friday with firearms in my luggage I though I would post the most recent TSA rules dated 20 Dec. 2013.

To avoid issues that could impact your travel and/or result in law enforcement action, here are some guidelines to assist you in packing your firearms and ammunition:

    All firearms  must be declared to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.
    The term firearm includes:*Please see, for instance, United States Code, Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 44 for information about firearm definitions.
        Any weapon (including a starter gun) which will, or is designed to, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive.
        The frame or receiver of any such weapon.
        Any firearm muffler or firearm silencer.
        Any destructive device.
    The firearm must be unloaded.
        As defined by 49 CFR 1540.5 - "A loaded firearm means a firearm that has a live round of ammunition, or any component thereof, in the chamber or cylinder or in a magazine inserted in the firearm."
    The firearm must be in a hard-sided container that is locked.   A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from being accessed. Locked cases that can be pulled open with little effort cannot be brought aboard the aircraft.
     If firearms are not properly declared or packaged, TSA will provide the checked bag to law enforcement for resolution with the airline. If the issue is resolved, law enforcement will release the bag to TSA so screening may be completed.
    TSA must resolve all alarms in  checked baggage. If a locked container containing a firearm alarms, TSA will contact the airline, who will make a reasonable attempt to contact the owner and advise the passenger to go to the screening location. If contact is not made, the container will not be placed on the aircraft.
    If a locked container alarms during screening and is not marked as containing a declared firearm, TSA will cut the lock in order to resolve the alarm.
    Travelers should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation.
    Travelers must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
    Firearm magazines and ammunition clips must be securely boxed or included within a hard-sided case containing an unloaded firearm.
    Small arms ammunition, including ammunition not exceeding .75 caliber for a rifle or pistol and shotgun shells of any gauge, may be carried in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as it follows the packing guidelines described above.
    TSA prohibits black powder or percussion caps used with black-powder.
    Rifle scopes are not prohibited in carry-on bags and do not need to be in the hard-sided, locked checked bag.

The link is below.
http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-information/firearms-and-ammunition

[Lumspond]

Thanks seniorgeek. I've flown Southwest with no issues. Keep a printed copy of TSA rules, and also rules from the airline with you.

[seniorgeek]

I am back in DE and would like to share my experience with Frontier and the TSA at New Castle and Denver airports.

We arrived at New Castle after the 45 minute required checking time so we were very rushed through all the process.
I declared I had firearms in my suitcase so immediately they asked me to open the suitcase and my gun cases to verify they were unloaded. What was interesting the TSA agent asked me to show him the pistols an he did not touch either one but looked to see that the magazines were not installed. He did not check to see if a round was chambered. He gave me card to sign that said I am in total possession of these firearms and verify that they are unloaded. I signed the card and put it in the gun case and they locked the case and put it back in the suitcase.
 I asked if he wanted to open the case with the magazines and he didn't say anything but to put it back in the suitcase, which I did. He then took my suitcase unlocked and said he would lock the suitcase before it was put on the plane. The whole TSA firearms check took about 7 minutes total.
When we arrived in Denver the suitcase was locked.

Some thoughts on what went on during the process, first remember we were late and they were rushing to get everything on the plane, I was surprised that TSA agent did not touch my firearms and didn't have me show or verify that there was not a round in the chamber. He also took my word that the other small case only had magazines in it and not a firearm. Remember the magazines were loaded.  

Return trip.

We arrived at the Denver airport with over 90 minutes to spare so time was not an issue.
I notified the Frontier agent that we had firearms. I opened the suit case and retrieved both gun cases. I was asked to open both. This agent called another agent over to inspect as she didn't want to handle the pistols. This agent verified that the magazine were not installed and checked to see if there was a bullet in the chamber. (Note: he was very knowledgeable on firearms.) After I filled out the same card as stated  above, he looked at the magazines in the other case and then asked me to lock both cases with the card inside and put them in the suitcase which I did. I locked the suitcase and he wrote down the number of the TSA lock and then asked me to take the suitcase and follow him. He escorted me to a secure room which had a large scanner. I waited as the TSA employee took my suitcase and put it through the scanner. He returned the suitcase to me with a TSA tag attached and said have a nice flight. This whole process took about 23 minutes.
Suitcase arrived in New Castle locked as expected.

Thoughts on this check.
It was very thorough and what I expected. No hassle just standard procedures. During the trip from the ticket counter to the TSA secure room I was chatting with the Frontier agent. He is the agent they call whenever firearms are declared because he is a retired Colorado State patrol officer. Now I understood his knowledge with firearms. He also said he was hired to be a Frontier agent because of his previous career as a LEO as most agents are not familiar with firearms and some don't want to handle them. We had a short chat about CCDW and gun rights while waiting for the TSA agent to scan the suitcase.

Final thoughts:
I believe if I had arrived in the required time the check at New Castle would have been more through and the case with the mags would have been checked, but it is still a little concerning that the agent did not even look inside the case with the magazines and only accepted my statement that is had the mags. Also this was my first time flying with firearms in my suitcase. I also did not need the copy of the TSA and Frontier rules for transporting firearms as it was never an issue.

[Moosie]

Senior Geek,

I'm glad you had no issue flying with your guns.  I fly on a regular basis with firearms.  The lack of awareness and inspection by most airlines is dumbfounding.  99.9% of the time the ticket agent doesn't want to even see the firearm, let alone check to make sure it's not loaded. It's "here.. fill this out."  I fill out the card, put it in each firearm case, close and lock it and keep the other half for my own records. 

Less than 5 times out of the many many many times I've flown in the last two years, has anyone physically checked the firearms to make sure they were unloaded. Two of those times I had to show the agent exactly what they were looking at / for. 

The first time I ever had to approach the ticket counter with a firearm, the lady never looked to see what I had, where it was or anything else. She simply handed me a card to fill out. Never asked if it was loaded, unloaded, etc. Never looked to see if in fact I had locked the case. Then she proceeded to put someone elses ID on my bag (which was headed for San Diego) and sent it down the line..   ummm no. Finally got that sorted out, and was told to stand at the far end of the counter. If no one came to get me within 10 minutes, I was clear to board.    My suitcase was locked, the gun cases were locked.  No one ever came out, so I boarded.  When I got to Philly, my bag was there my traveling companions was not. It had been sent to San Diego lol. 

The whole TSA effort is a farce that gives the sheeple warm fuzzies.  Where in the history of the TSA have they ever foiled a terrorist attack? How many times have they actually prevented something from happening - foreign or domestic?  To my knowledge, none.  Then again, what do you expect for $11 an hour? Its a waste of time and money.

Moosie

[Adrenolin]

I stopped flying after 9/11. I used to enjoy it but the complete BS that goes along with it now makes me drive back and forth between the US and Canada. Happily I enjoy the drive. I've never seen the point if the TSA and agree with Moosie that its simply to give the common folks warm and fuzzy's making them feel its necessary and adds safety.

I find it funny that you need to sign a paper stating that you are "in total possession of these firearms" when in fact you are placing them into storage with the airlines and are not in possession of them. 

[groundgrid]

What happens on the arrival end if your locked firearms case is a rifle case (looks like it has a gun in it)?
Does it end up on the carousel with the other baggage?

My preference is that it gets pulled by the airline and needs to be claimed with the appropriate documentation.

[Moosie]

Sadly, yes.  Your suitcase comes out on the carousel with all the other bags. Same with a rifle case. I've heard that some airlines either make you go to the baggage claim office and present id etc. and another brings you your bag in baggage claim directly, instead of letting it go with the other bags. But, there's nothing on the outside of the bag to give away the fact that it contains a firearm. Of course, a rifle case is a little more noticeable...  but in my experience, it's come down the carousel too.  I've never had to go to the baggage claim office to claim my bag, nor has anyone ever come to baggage claim to give me my bag. 

Scary thought, huh? 

Moosie

[Cbmarine]

@Moosie, I'm sure that you have no problem keeping other passengers from stealing your bags when you show up wearing a thigh rig and a ski mask.

[Moosie]

LOL...  if only it were that easy.  Quite often I look like a college student when I travel, complete with backpack, the trendy coffee cup, blah blah blah...  nothing even remotely as sexy as a thigh holster and a ski mask might be. 

Moosie