Author Topic: Seeking the assistance of an attorney...  (Read 8780 times)

He123321

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Seeking the assistance of an attorney...
« on: May 17, 2016, 09:22:42 PM »
I am doing this for a buddy of my that was denied his CCW application few months back. He knew about the 10 day appeal processes, but he does not want to walk in without an attorney present. All the lawyers that we find are criminal defense attorneys. If anyone knows of one, please let me know.

Thanks for any assistance on the matter...
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 09:24:31 PM by He123321 »
I'm a great individual to meet...

Dave in DE

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Seeking the assistance of an attorney...
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2016, 04:31:00 AM »
Is he an NRA member? if so have him contact them.

rikwick

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
Re: Seeking the assistance of an attorney...
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2016, 10:58:33 AM »
When it comes to having a lawyer present during the appeals process, it's been my experience that in 99% of the cases a lawyer is not necessary.  Think of it like this:  

If we lived in a shall issue state, than the process of obtaining a ccw is strictly a legal one.  So an attorney may be necessary because at an appeal he/she knows the law and can answer or argue any legal questions that may need to be addressed. However, since we live in a may issue state, the process, especially the appeals process is entirely up to the judge's discretion. (Barring any disqualifications such as felonies, drug convictions, domestic violence issues...at which an appeal is useless).   Case in point: 64Falconguy-an attorney would never be able to help him, I mean what would his attorney really be able to say?  "Your honor, my client is sorry and since his incident 10yrs ago he has been productive and has no issues with the law..."   All of which is better said directly by the person appealing.  The appeal is the time when you represent yourself to the judge your character, what type of person you are (completely different from shall issue).  So in all reality, an attorney could hurt rather than help you.  Of course there are exceptions to every rule and I have no facts about what your buddy is facing and "I am not an attorney, so anything I say should not be construed as legal advise." :)

Update:  I just read elsewhere that your buddy plead guilty to an assault charge 20yrs ago.  I will admit 20 yrs is a long time ago.  If your buddy decides to appeal what could be in his favor is: It has been 20yrs ago, and hopefully he has had NO record within that time.  He may be able to argue that he was young and since then he has matured enough to better deal with circumstances that led to his conviction (record will prove that), and maybe he can argue that since that time he has engaged in anger management counseling (documentation would be required), or perhaps he can argue that he took immediate responsibility and plead guilty to the charge.  There would be NO reason to go into the details of the conviction (unless of course the Judge asks)  for instance:  "well your honor, I plead to the charge only to get rid of it, but actually I was innocent."  As far as the judge is concerned the conviction is proof of guilt.   Remember MAY ISSUE means there is NO legal obligation for the judge to issue a ccw.  So my opinion is that since it is NOT a legal question an attorney may not be needed.  

« Last Edit: May 21, 2016, 11:20:24 AM by rikwick »

29thInfantry

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 707
Re: Seeking the assistance of an attorney...
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2016, 04:26:50 PM »
When it comes to having a lawyer present during the appeals process, it's been my experience that in 99% of the cases a lawyer is not necessary.  Think of it like this:  

If we lived in a shall issue state, than the process of obtaining a ccw is strictly a legal one.  So an attorney may be necessary because at an appeal he/she knows the law and can answer or argue any legal questions that may need to be addressed. However, since we live in a may issue state, the process, especially the appeals process is entirely up to the judge's discretion. (Barring any disqualifications such as felonies, drug convictions, domestic violence issues...at which an appeal is useless).   Case in point: 64Falconguy-an attorney would never be able to help him, I mean what would his attorney really be able to say?  "Your honor, my client is sorry and since his incident 10yrs ago he has been productive and has no issues with the law..."   All of which is better said directly by the person appealing.  The appeal is the time when you represent yourself to the judge your character, what type of person you are (completely different from shall issue).  So in all reality, an attorney could hurt rather than help you.  Of course there are exceptions to every rule and I have no facts about what your buddy is facing and "I am not an attorney, so anything I say should not be construed as legal advise." :)

Update:  I just read elsewhere that your buddy plead guilty to an assault charge 20yrs ago.  I will admit 20 yrs is a long time ago.  If your buddy decides to appeal what could be in his favor is: It has been 20yrs ago, and hopefully he has had NO record within that time.  He may be able to argue that he was young and since then he has matured enough to better deal with circumstances that led to his conviction (record will prove that), and maybe he can argue that since that time he has engaged in anger management counseling (documentation would be required), or perhaps he can argue that he took immediate responsibility and plead guilty to the charge.  There would be NO reason to go into the details of the conviction (unless of course the Judge asks)  for instance:  "well your honor, I plead to the charge only to get rid of it, but actually I was innocent."  As far as the judge is concerned the conviction is proof of guilt.   Remember MAY ISSUE means there is NO legal obligation for the judge to issue a ccw.  So my opinion is that since it is NOT a legal question an attorney may not be needed.  



You definitely seem to know a lot about this issue thank you for your input on this.
NRA Member
US Army Vet.
Delaware CCDWP
PA LTCF
Child of God

Federal Firearm

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 310
Re: Seeking the assistance of an attorney...
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2016, 08:30:20 PM »
I respectfully disagree with you...last time i was in court for ccw appeals there were 20 people appealing their denials..some were for minor things..18 had no lawyers 2 had lawyers..the two with were overturned...one of the 18 without lawyers was....depends how bad you want and if you are willing to take a chance...a good lawyer has the know how to work most cases...without is believe is suicide....

you don't have to listen to me, but i was there.....

rikwick

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
Re: Seeking the assistance of an attorney...
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2016, 09:52:36 PM »
No problem,  I wish your buddy all the best luck.  Just keep in mind I work there and have seen more cases than just 20.  My experience is that most cases are won without lawyers. And I have seen lawyers lose too.    Of course every case is different and if you or your buddy feel a lawyer is necessary (it may just be true I concede) by all means go for it! My comments are of a general nature,  and there may be factors in your buddy's case I have no idea about.   Hopefully at least my opinions helped in giving a heads up to what the judge is looking for. Keep us in the loop, and I'll be looking for your buddy within the next few months.  
« Last Edit: May 21, 2016, 09:56:44 PM by rikwick »

He123321

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Seeking the assistance of an attorney...
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2016, 05:49:20 PM »
Hey guys, I truly appreciate your time in replying. I will forward this info to him, and I will keep you guys updated on what happens.

God bless...
I'm a great individual to meet...

Condition 1

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 690
Re: Seeking the assistance of an attorney...
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2016, 05:59:19 PM »
I would lawyer up. If he messes up the appeal everything gets harder, have him play his best cards now.

Adrenolin

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1494
Re: Seeking the assistance of an attorney...
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2016, 04:33:06 AM »
Appeals.. It's a legal thing. At the very least I'd have to suggest a consult with a lawyer on the issue. Any decent lawyer will advise you if it's something you can do on your own or if you should have representation depending on the specific issue at hand. Personally I'd be going in with a lawyer without a doubt.

rikwick

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
Re: Seeking the assistance of an attorney...
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2016, 10:17:00 AM »
Appeals.. It's a legal thing. At the very least I'd have to suggest a consult with a lawyer on the issue. Any decent lawyer will advise you if it's something you can do on your own or if you should have representation depending on the specific issue at hand. Personally I'd be going in with a lawyer without a doubt.


Not trying to argue, but I slightly disagree about your take on appeals being a "legal thing".  If we were a shall issue state then obviously it would strictly be a "legal thing" because as long as the candidate met all the legal requirements the judge must issue the permit.  But we are a may issue state and that adds "judges discretion" to the mix.  Judges discretion is not a legal thing at all, I would classify it more as "moral character" which is much more subjective in nature ("legal thing" being more objective).  In the little time a person has in front of a judge, it is his good moral character that he/she is trying to portray for the judge so as to look past the "legal thing" the AG denied the permit for. 

Maybe a good analogy would be like having an interview for a job where you would have the opportunity to convince an employer your the best person to hire above all the other applicants.

He123321

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Seeking the assistance of an attorney...
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2016, 04:17:30 PM »
I'm back, and still need an attorney for my buddy. He wants to sit down, and see what are his options with said person. We tried calling a few places, but it looks like no such attorney exists in Delaware according to the feedback we have received.

He open carries, but is getting tired of being asked to leave certain establishments because of it.

Again, any info is much appreciated...
I'm a great individual to meet...

MarcWinkman

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 323
Re: Seeking the assistance of an attorney...
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2016, 05:46:20 PM »
Just an FYI, a good resource to look into is the Delaware Association of Second Amendment Lawyers.  Take a look at dasal.org.

Also, with how long ago this happened, he's going to have to resubmit an application with all that entails since the appeals window is long closed.  The 10 day window is jurisdictional in nature and failure to file the appropriate Notice of Appeal in that time frame means that the court will no longer have authority to hear the case. 

Federal Firearm

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 310
Re: Seeking the assistance of an attorney...
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2016, 01:10:08 AM »
what Marc said.......

NormH3

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 409
Re: Seeking the assistance of an attorney...
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2016, 03:49:11 AM »
It's nice to be helpful, but I've seen quite a few posts on firearms forums about guys looking for legal advice for their buddy. Things that make you say hmmmmmm....

CorBon

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 457
  • The Revolution starts in your heart...
Re: Seeking the assistance of an attorney...
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2016, 05:56:27 PM »
It's nice to be helpful, but I've seen quite a few posts on firearms forums about guys looking for legal advice for their buddy. Things that make you say hmmmmmm....
Do you mean like: "I got this friend who hooked up with this girl and now he's got this rash and a green discharge, and now he wants to know what should he do?"

That being said, most of us have at least one friend or relative who is so lazy that if the person fell down in the road, they'd probably get ran over before the end of the week.  So, sometimes we find ourselves doing a bit extra for them!

Now, back to my buddy's rash...
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 08:55:12 PM by CorBon »
Very few guns are actually "illegal guns."  A gun misappropriated by a criminal is no more of an "illegal gun" than a stolen car is an "illegal car."