Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
State News & Gun News => Delaware News => Topic started by: Paladin4CA on August 07, 2013, 02:01:24 PM
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Hi guys/gals!
I'm in CA, which, like DE, is 1 of only 8 states that are NOT "Shall Issue" and/or Con Carry.
I saw an article a week or two ago re. your Biden and him talking about guns, and it mentioned in passing that he'd address the Open Carry issue. That caught my eye, so I went to OpenCarry.Org and saw that, yes, DE is OC friendly. DE is the ONLY state of the remaining 8 holdouts that is OC friendly.
That made me wonder: Could DE pro-CCWers could use Open Carry events like Ohio did back in '02 or '03 to force OH to pass Shall Issue? Or would OC activism most likely have a backlash that would end up getting OC banned in DE? (Like what happened a few years ago w/CA unloaded Open Carry activists.)
With IL having been forced to issue (they're in the process of going straight from No Issue to Shall Issue), I'd LOVE to see DE switch next.
In CA, and I'd guess all the other holdouts, Carry Cases in federal courts are our only hope. Politically, we can't win Shall Issue at this time....
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@paladin4ca, suggest that you post your question on deloc.org, the DE OC forum. I lived in CA several times over the past decades and was always astounded by the naive attitudes of CA types (not you). You have my sympathies.
DE issues CC permits like a Shall Issue state and the typical DECCW forum member has gone through the DE CCDW process. IMO, 'rocking the boat' isn't the predominant opinion here.
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Thanks for the reply.
@paladin4ca, suggest that you post your question on deloc.org, the DE OC forum.
I had thought of that. But since this is pro-CCW activism, I thought deccw.com would be more interested. deloc.org might rightly say, "We're pro-OC and we've already got that, so why should we care?"
I lived in CA several times over the past decades and was always astounded by the naive attitudes of CA types (not you). You have my sympathies.
I appreciate the sympathy, but not sure what you mean re. "naive attitudes of CA types". Maybe best to discuss this via PMs or in separate thread. If the latter, just PM me to let me know you've started a thread (w/its link), and I'll reply.
DE issues CC permits like a Shall Issue state and the typical DECCW forum member has gone through the DE CCDW process.
So DE is like AL was until this month when their new Shall Issue law took place.
http://www.nranews.com/resources/video/alabama-passes-shall-issue-legislation/list/state-legislation-alabama
Does the DE AG's Office support issuing permits for "self-defense"? If not, sort of "reason" does fly w/them: for example, gun club member who regularly shoots, w/proof of both? lives and/or works in high crime area? documented threat/s against your life along w/police report/s of such? (Your application form calls it the "Reason for Application.")
Do your Superior Court judges accept "self-defense" as sufficient reason for issuing a permit? If not, what sort of reason/s fly w/them?
IMO, 'rocking the boat' isn't the predominant opinion here.
Yes, using Dem vs. Repub as a very crude measure of anti vs pro RKBA, I can see why "rocking the boat" may not be advised.
Is OC legal because of DE's state constitutional RKBA or because of legislation?
Same question re. CCWs.
If both OC and CCWs are based upon legislation, and assuming you've got an anti Gov, and antis majorities in both your Senate and House, best not to risk what you've got to try to get Shall Issue.
If OC is based upon DE state con. RKBA, but CCWs based upon legislation, and assuming the same things re. your Gov and legislature, then it is a judgment call whether to risk "liberal" May Issue CCWs to get solid Shall Issue. For OH, it was worth it since they had No Issue re. CCWs before forcing Shall Issue via OC demonstrations/protests/marches/events.
If both OC and CCWs are based upon DE state con. RKBA, I'm not sure if anything would be at risk by using OH's strategy & tactics to force Shall Issue. Of course, you guys would know better, I'm just analyzing things from the other coast.
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DE Constitution; Article I, Bill Of Rights; § 20. Right to keep and bear arms.
Section 20. A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and State, and for hunting and recreational use.
According to my CC class, judges in two of the three counties accept "protection of self and property"
My "naive" comment is based on snail darter, pacific smelt vs. nut trees, and taxation.
Still not convinced to rock the boat; I'll let others chime in..
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I once commented about out-of-staters joining the forum and quickly received return comments about how much they are welcome. Point made and I agree that they should be.
What was missed was the context of my comment. The lawyer in question (out-of-stater) had no interest in DE concealed carry. None at all. He was just trying to sell a book.
I’m not throwing stones at the thread owner here. However, I am more than just a little suspicious that someone from CA is making efforts to push activism 3000 miles away. I’ve met and still communicate with several of my State representatives. There is work to be done but why not through our own community which, by the way, has produced some positive results.
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I’m not throwing stones at the thread owner here. However, I am more than just a little suspicious that someone from CA is making efforts to push activism 3000 miles away. I’ve met and still communicate with several of my State representatives. There is work to be done but why not through our own community which, by the way, has produced some positive results.
Personally, I think we need all the help we can get. Special interest groups like the Brady Bunch and MAIG are the ones that write these laws and tailor them to get passed. We can use our own special interest groups that fight against the tyranny the Antis are trying to shove down our throats. I also don't have faith in some of our big groups like the NRA. They will roll over some rights in favor of others and our rights still erode. No hard line in the sand that they won't stand for IMO.
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What was missed was the context of my comment. The lawyer in question (out-of-stater) had no interest in DE concealed carry. None at all. He was just trying to sell a book.
I’m not throwing stones at the thread owner here. However, I am more than just a little suspicious that someone from CA is making efforts to push activism 3000 miles away. <snip> There is work to be done but why not through our own community which, by the way, has produced some positive results.
A few thoughts: (1) I could easily have not stated I was out-of-state and just pretended to be a new DE resident and/or a gun newbie. (2) Nope, not selling anything. My only interest is in seeing our entire country turn "blue" (or even better, green!), in the image below. (3) I'll probably be making fewer than a dozen posts total on this forum. I don't have enough time to devote to your fight as well as ours in CA (in addition to my "real" life).
I usually keep busy at CalGuns.Net. You guys may enjoy/benefit from my list of 80+ CCW incidents. (It will be up to ~90 once I find time to add some newer ones.) How do you know that is my workproduct? In post #5, right before the map images, I've posted a shout out to Obleo. (I'll leave that up thru this weekend.)
Link to examples of CCWs Saving Lives: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=858390 (updated link on 2013 Nov 28)
BTW, Obleo, if you've EARNED the PRIVILEGE to display the EGA... Thanks for your service! My Father (RIP), was a Marine mustang in WWII and Korea.
(http://www.gun-nuttery.com/maps/2013.gif)
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DE Constitution; Article I, Bill Of Rights; § 20. Right to keep and bear arms.
Section 20. A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and State, and for hunting and recreational use.
Sounds like OC in DE is secure: acc to http://deloc.org/whatis.php it sounds like the DE Con RKBA protects it. So, unless the antis try to amend or revise your state Con (undoubtedly under some other justification), you're solid re. OC.
Not sure how you reconcile: DE issues CC permits like a Shall Issue state ....
with
According to my CC class, judges in two of the three counties accept "protection of self and property"
esp if the restrictive county is New Castle, which has a majority of DE's population.
CC, requiring a CCW permit, doesn't sound as secure as OC. When did DE get their current May Issue law permitting CCWs?
I read your Superior Courts are state courts, rather than county courts. How do judges get on that bench: elected? appointed? nominated? By who?
Which county does NOT accept self-defense for issuing a CCW? What does it take (typically), to get a CCW there? Did that county issue for self-defense, oh, say 15 years ago?
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I’m not throwing stones at the thread owner here. However, I am more than just a little suspicious that someone from CA is making efforts to push activism 3000 miles away. I’ve met and still communicate with several of my State representatives. There is work to be done but why not through our own community which, by the way, has produced some positive results.
Personally, I think we need all the help we can get. Special interest groups like the Brady Bunch and MAIG are the ones that write these laws and tailor them to get passed. We can use our own special interest groups that fight against the tyranny the Antis are trying to shove down our throats. I also don't have faith in some of our big groups like the NRA. They will roll over some rights in favor of others and our rights still erode. No hard line in the sand that they won't stand for IMO.
I agree with you. Sometimes among gun owners though , and I have seen an experience it personally, people fight foes that are not real enemies and there are times people stand up for people who could be enemies to gun owners.
I agree we need all the help we can get. That is one reason I always tell people with permits not to fight battles over if people should be able to oc. Personally I think they should, I do and I would hope their would be a serious challenge if Delaware changes the law because even with a permit there are times I prefer to open carry, but it the clothes I am wearing, area I am going to or whatever.
Since most lawmakers in Delaware believe choice so much ( couple definitions) I would hope they respect our "choice" on how we carry.
ITS OUR GUNS ITS OUR CHOICE!!!!!!
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Paladin4CA: I visited the link you provided above. Please keep up the good work. Like I said before, no mal intent. Just a healthy skepticism from the university of hard knocks.
And yes. I earned the privilege in spades to display the EGA. FYI: I don’t display the EGA for my personal satisfaction. This is a tribute, with it burned into my forearm, to all that fought for my freedoms. May God bless your father. He likely helped set the bar for the rest of us.
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What was missed was the context of my comment. The lawyer in question (out-of-stater) had no interest in DE concealed carry. None at all. He was just trying to sell a book.
I’m not throwing stones at the thread owner here. However, I am more than just a little suspicious that someone from CA is making efforts to push activism 3000 miles away. <snip> There is work to be done but why not through our own community which, by the way, has produced some positive results.
A few thoughts: (1) I could easily have not stated I was out-of-state and just pretended to be a new DE resident and/or a gun newbie. (2) Nope, not selling anything. My only interest is in seeing our entire country turn "blue" (or even better, green!), in the image below. (3) I'll probably be making fewer than a dozen posts total on this forum. I don't have enough time to devote to your fight as well as ours in CA (in addition to my "real" life).
I usually keep busy at CalGuns.Net. You guys may enjoy/benefit from my list of 80+ CCW incidents. (It will be up to ~90 once I find time to add some newer ones.) How do you know that is my workproduct? In post #5, right before the map images, I've posted a shout out to Obleo. (I'll leave that up thru this weekend.)
Link to examples of CCWs Saving Lives: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=598875
BTW, Obleo, if you've EARNED the PRIVILEGE to display the EGA... Thanks for your service! My Father (RIP), was a Marine mustang in WWII and Korea.
(http://www.gun-nuttery.com/maps/2013.gif)
BLUE on this map is a pretty color... "Shall issue" in DE would be nice. I just started to work on the paper work for my CCW.
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When did DE get their current May Issue law permitting CCWs?
I read your Superior Courts are state courts, rather than county courts. How do judges get on that bench: elected? appointed? nominated? By who?
good questions. If Anthony, the DSSA attorney, or Shannon Alford, our NRA ILA rep, are monitoring this thread, they should be able to answer this.
Which county does NOT accept self-defense for issuing a CCW?
According to my CC class instructor, at least one judge in Sussex County wants a specific reason not the generic quote from the DE Constitution.
What does it take (typically), to get a CCW there?
Not easy. Not cheap. Not quick. http://courts.delaware.gov/forms/download.aspx?ID=33278
Did that county issue for self-defense, oh, say 15 years ago?
See attorney deflection above.
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Which county does NOT accept self-defense for issuing a CCW?
According to my CC class instructor, at least one judge in Sussex County wants a specific reason not the generic quote from the DE Constitution.
That brings up a new question: how many different judges in each county issue the permits? Who determines which judges serve in that capacity?
Who/What determines which judge gets a particular application?
Do all the judges in that county (or state), have some standards or rules that hedge in their discretion? IOW, I assume they CANNOT "arbitrarily & capriciously" grant one applicant a permit while denying an identical applicant.
What does it take (typically), to get a CCW there?
Not easy. Not cheap. Not quick. http://courts.delaware.gov/forms/download.aspx?ID=33278
When I asked what it typically takes, I meant what "reason" for a CCW does that county accept if they require more than mere self-defense (or quoting the state Con.). By your answer, it seems like I should rephrase it to "what 'reason' for a CCW does that Sussex judge accept for issuing a permit?"
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Guys, I thing you should ask these question at each of the county offices to see what answers you receive.
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Here is what the section of the Delaware On Line Code says:
1441, a, 5
(5) The license issued upon initial application shall be valid for 3 years. On or before the date of expiration of such initial license, the licensee, without further application, may renew the same for the further period of 5 years upon payment to the Prothonotary of a fee of $65, and upon filing with said Prothonotary an affidavit setting forth that the carrying of a concealed deadly weapon by the licensee is necessary for personal protection or protection of the person's property, or both, and that the person possesses all the requirements for the issuance of a license and may make like renewal every 5 years thereafter; provided, however, that the Superior Court, upon good cause presented to it, may inquire into the renewal request and deny the same for good cause shown. No requirements in addition to those specified in this paragraph may be imposed for the renewal of a license.
If you give these reasons, should a judge accept them? Can a judge require more stringent requirements?
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@MarkB, the application as you well know states that you must be specific in your reason. A judge might want a more specific reason.
I put a specific reason on my application besides protect life and person property.
I know what the law states, but it also says " the person possesses all the requirements for the issuance of a license" which the judge has some discretion and may want a more specific reason.
For all who are reading this, put a specific reason besides protect life and property, it may help to move along the process.
PS I go my permit is 6 weeks, but I submitted it in March.
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@MarkB, the application as you well know states that you must be specific in your reason. A judge might want a more specific reason.
I put a specific reason on my application besides protect life and person property.
I know what the law states, but it also says " the person possesses all the requirements for the issuance of a license" which the judge has some discretion and may want a more specific reason.
For all who are reading this, put a specific reason besides protect life and property, it may help to move along the process.
PS I go my permit is 6 weeks, but I submitted it in March.
It is possible they changed it, but everyone I know and my instructor ( first state firearms) said "protection of self, family, and property"
I wonder if I am the only one annoyed at how much info they want for a ccdw, but yet other issues important to the anti-side they talk about privacy and choice.
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i submit that we are in the weeds here. I just returned "naked" from our neighboring anti-2A state to the northeast. Tomorrow, I'll travel inhibited to the neighbor state to the west. We are CC-functional here in DE. Turning our state blue is a statistics exercise. I'd rather see much more effort to "Illinois" our neighbors. For instance, suing NJ for putting in jeopardy my "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" because of their hoplophobia. Rant over.
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If something is put in as a specific, the judge may rule that you may only carry during that specific too. Food for thought
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If something is put in as a specific, the judge may rule that you may only carry during that specific too. Food for thought
Example: A specific could be something like " making multiple trips to a location at various times with valuables" plus the usual statement.
This leaves it very open as to when you need to carry.
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When I took my course, the instructor shared a story about an applicant that stated the reason to carry was that he needed to make an after hours drop at a night security box at the bank typically on Fridays between 6 and 8 pm. His permit came back with that restriction. He could only legally carry at that time.
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Robberbarron, that was entirely to specific. You need to be generally specific as I stated.
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I think
"See second amendment to the Constitution" should suffice, but that would get the app declined for sure.
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Does DE publish (on the web?), the number of current CCW holders?
IIRC, in most Shall Issue states, between 3-5% of the adult population usually gets their CCW. I think getting 5% of DEians (1 out of 20 adults) issued a CCW would be a worthwhile goal.
To that end, you guys should make a list of EVERY gun shop, gun club, and gun range in the state. Organize them acc to location. You'll want each location to have, oh, 3 volunteers from here who will visit it 2x each month to make sure it is supplied w/the business card fliers. Each volunteer may promise to visit, say, two locations near where they live and two near where they work every two weeks (e.g., on their commute, while running errands, etc). This is to make sure they're supplied w/the fliers for the sales people to give w/every sales receipt, or to hand out to members (IPSC, IDPA, PPC), or to leave out for people to take themselves. Of course, # of business card fliers for each location, how often any particular location needs to be resupplied, etc. are all adjusted acc to experience.
I have no idea how many volunteers it will take from this forum to have 3 people cover every shop, club, and range.
Print these "business card fliers" on plain printer paper using MS Word, in 2 column format. You should be able to fit at least 10 on a single sheet of paper. You don't want the "business cards" so small that people will lose them or not notice them (like a fortune cookie's fortune). Standard business card size is best, or just slightly smaller. A title in bold italics like "Handgun Carry Permit Info!" will catch their eye. The fliers will have brief statement in easy to read sans serif front that "If you want to learn about getting a DE concealed handgun carry permit, visit (and then give a URL/web address) for free info." Just enough to grab their attention and make them want to visit the site.
Gun shop/range owners should be for this because the more people who carry, the more guns and ammo sales and the more people who will want to practice.
Carrying a half dozen around in your wallet and a couple of dozen in your car's glove box lets you give them out to those you talk to vs them having to rely upon their memory, and to stick under windshield wiper blades of cars you see w/military, hunting, shooting, NRA, Tea Party, Ron Paul, Gadsden flag, or similar decals.
The website the cards direct people to may be a dedicated webpage here or a separate website that will take them step-by-step thru the process and have links to official state documents/info/applications. Simple and user-friendly are key.
This gives DE 2nd A activists something positive to do while we wait for the fed courts to, hopefully, give us Shall Issue nationwide, either before July 4th 2014 or, at latest, July 4th, 2015. If we don't win that in the fed cts/SCOTUS, that means the only way we'll get it is politically. As you can see from the below animation, not a single state that has gone Shall Issue has EVER gone back! DE CCW has nothing to lose and everything to gain by undertaking something like I've described. It will put you guys in a lot stronger position to fight for Shall Issue politically if we don't win it judicially. The more people who have CCWs, the more people who have "skin in the game," a vested interest in defending your RKBA in DE.
(Of course, I'm not trying to tell you guys what to do in your state. I'm just trying to share some ideas to help you solidify and defend your RKBA in DE. This will put you in a stronger position for a political offensive, if Woollard, Drake and other carry cases don't come thru and you have to fight for Shall Issue legislation, and maybe use OC "events" to persuade the politicos....)
(http://www.gun-nuttery.com/rtc.gif)
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When did DE get their current May Issue law permitting CCWs?
I read your Superior Courts are state courts, rather than county courts. How do judges get on that bench: elected? appointed? nominated? By who?
good questions. If Anthony, the DSSA attorney, or Shannon Alford, our NRA ILA rep, are monitoring this thread, they should be able to answer this.
Looks like you guys still don't know how the people who decide whether you get a CCW or not, whether you get to renew your CCW or not, get selected and by whom.
Which county does NOT accept self-defense for issuing a CCW?
According to my CC class instructor, at least one judge in Sussex County wants a specific reason not the generic quote from the DE Constitution.
What does it take (typically), to get a CCW there?
Not easy. Not cheap. Not quick. http://courts.delaware.gov/forms/download.aspx?ID=33278
Did that county issue for self-defense, oh, say 15 years ago?
See attorney deflection above.
You guys may be vulnerable to a "frog in the kettle" approach where slowly, not so fast as to raise a big oppositional response, the judges start making it harder to get or renew a CCW, until there are too few of you w/CCWs who are motivated to mount an effective defense.
A lot of people tend to think, "Aw, judges, they're not political. They just read the law and apply it to the facts of the case." Remember: in Bowers v. Hardwick (1986), SCOTUS said that the constitution allowed homosexual acts to be criminalized. But less than 20 years later, in Lawrence v. Texas (2003), SCOTUS said not only could they not be criminalized, but they were actually a constitutionally protected right! Regardless of your beliefs about homosexuality, the point remains. SCOTUS flipped 180 degrees in less than 20 years.
As long as discretion is allowed, your CCWs are vulnerable.
What are the odds of Shall Issue passing each legislative chamber and getting signed into law?
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Does DE have a state equivalent of the federal "Freedom of Information Act" (FOIA)? In CA we have the "Public Records Act" (PRA).
Why is this important? Because in CA, in the major urban counties where most of the population is and where, naturally, most of the crime is, CCW issuance by the sheriffs is VERY restrictive UNLESS you area politician, a celebrity, or a major donor to the sheriff's campaign. (Those major urban sheriffs are best thought of as "politicians with badges & guns" rather than as chief law enforcement officers.)
One of the activist in CA uses our state's PRA law to compare the "Good Cause" (GC) statements of CCW holders in a particular county (open to public review per a 9th Circuit case, CBS v. Block), to see if there are 14th Amendment (equal protection of the law), violations (e.g., sheriff issues to donor w/same or similar GC to Joe Average whom he denied). If you have a FOIA/PRA-like law and CCW applications are subject to it, if judges start getting restrictive in their issuance, you may have to resort to that legal strategy to get them to issue CCWs to average people.
You can learn more about that method over at: http://californiaconcealedcarry.com/
Here's the sad state of affairs in CA. Most sheriffs (thus most counties), readily issue. But most people don't live in those counties....
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f337/clownburner/OCCCWS/ca_ccw_map-big.png)
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Not sure how you reconcile: DE issues CC permits like a Shall Issue state ....
with
According to my CC class, judges in two of the three counties accept "protection of self and property"
Question for all: What sort of "Good Cause" (i.e., justification), on an application is sufficient to get a CCW: from weakest (#1), to strongest (#7)?
1) "self-defense" or "to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights"
2) "I'm an avid shooter who regularly goes to the range w/various guns and ammo and thus need a CCW to protect them." Or, "I regularly hike in wilderness areas and need a CCW to protect myself since LE response would take too long."
3) "I'm a competitive 3-gun shooter, here's proof of my club membership, proof of the competitions I've attended around the state, here's my awards. I need a CCW to protect all of these guns (and their back ups/spares), as I travel around the state to competitions open to the public."
4) "I collect rents/business payments, often cash in bad parts of town, I need a CCW for self-defense." Or, "I live in a bad part of town...."
5) Same as #4, but "I've been robbed previously when doing this."
6) "I've had my life threatened by an ex (significant other/employee/etc). See attached police report and restraining order. We believe this perp was the one who broke into our home while we were at work. See this video tape from our outside cameras. We've also seen him drive by our home and/or places of work."
7) "A gang I testified against has a hit out on me. See all the attached and talk w/FBI Agent Smith for more details."
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It seems those areas its really hard to get a permit in CA are places with
lots of illegals
lots of crime
Democrats in power
Go figure.
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The reason needs to be "The Reason".
Some people I know gave great descriptions of
The dangers they face. Others like myself just said Personal Protection
Don't lie. Don't make things up.
I don't know anyone who was turned down for a giving a bad reason as to why they need
a permit.
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I seem to remember in the 90's it was very discretionary on the prothonatary's part for issuing a Permit here in DE. Then I think the NRA came to town, there was a court case, and now it is must issue if requirements are met.
One thing I do see is much more permit issuance in the past 7 years or so. It is now revenue generation for the state. Just as when they doubled the building permit costs.
That is what I was worried about when I was going for my ccdw. I understand it was while oberly was in office and he was ridiculous about reasons and offering limited permits like only when depositing cash.
Oberly would not even prosecute a cold blooded murderer in Corrina Hawkings. She goes outside her house after a guy was no longer a threat and stabs him.
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Is the renewal then "shall issue"?
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Does DE publish (on the web?), the number of current CCW holders?
IIRC, in most Shall Issue states, between 3-5% of the adult population usually gets their CCW. I think getting 5% of DEians (1 out of 20 adults) issued a CCW would be a worthwhile goal.
....
Print these "business card fliers" on plain printer paper using MS Word, in 2 column format. You should be able to fit at least 10 on a single sheet of paper. You don't want the "business cards" so small that people will lose them or not notice them (like a fortune cookie's fortune). Standard business card size is best, or just slightly smaller. A title in bold italics like "Handgun Carry Permit Info!" will catch their eye. The fliers will have brief statement in easy to read sans serif front that "If you want to learn about getting a DE concealed handgun carry permit, visit (and then give a URL/web address) for free info." Just enough to grab their attention and make them want to visit the site.
Gun shop/range owners should be for this because the more people who carry, the more guns and ammo sales and the more people who will want to practice.
Carrying a half dozen around in your wallet and a couple of dozen in your car's glove box lets you give them out to those you talk to vs them having to rely upon their memory, and to stick under windshield wiper blades of cars you see w/military, hunting, shooting, NRA, Tea Party, Ron Paul, Gadsden flag, or similar decals.
I think that spreading the CCDW message is worthwhile. I am planning to print the suggested wording on cardstock and have available when the CC topic comes up. The Delaware CCW Process webpage would be ideal if it started with a positive pitch for DE CCDW and the hyperlinks at the bottom of the page were moved up to where they are referenced. How about it? Who else?
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Interesting as I was wondering how long Delaware CCW has been like this.
Found the following on line from a 1915 version of the Delaware Code
The current wording is almost the same if you check the current law that available on this forum.
Training was not required, but back then your 5 signers needed to
be in your same election district not the county. And the Protonotary was the Clerk of the Peace
Interesting 98 years ago the notice was published in the paper like now:
262. Sec. 225. Concealed Deadly Weapons; License to Carry; Proceedings to Obtain; Fees; Exceptions:—Any person of full age and good moral character, desiring to be licensed to carry a concealed deadly weapon or weapons for the protection of his person or property, may be licensed to do so when the following conditions have been strictly complied with.
Such person shall make application therefor in writing, and file the same with the Clerk of the Peace of the proper County, at least fifteen days before the then next session of the Court of General Sessions, clearly stating that he is a person of full age; that he is desirous of being licensed to carry a concealed deadly weapon or weapons for the protection of his person or property or both, also stating his residence and occupation.
At the same time every such person shall file, with the Clerk of the Peace aforesaid, a certificate of five respectable citizens of the election district in which such applicant resides at the time of filing his said application; which certificate shall clearly state that the applicant is a person of full age, sobriety and good moral character, that he bears a good reputation for peace and good order in the community in which he resides and that the carrying of a concealed deadly weapon or weapons by the applicant, is necessary for the protection of said applicant or his property or both; said certificate shall be signed with the proper signatures and in the proper handwriting of each such respectable citizen.
Every such applicant shall file in the office of the Clerk of the Peace of the proper county his application as aforesaid, verified by his oath or affirmation in writing taken before an officer authorized by the Laws of the State of Delaware to administer the same, and shall under such verification state that his certificate and recommendation were read to or by the signers thereof and that the signatures thereto are in the proper and genuine handwriting of each.
At the time he files his said application he shall pay to the Clerk of the Peace the full tax for said license, and also a fee of One dollar to the Clerk of the Peace for issuing the same, together with his proportionate share of the cost of advertising his said notice of making said application.
The Clerk of the Peace of the County in which any applicant for a license as aforesaid files the same, shall cause notice of every such application to be published once, at least ten days before the then next session of said Court of General Sessions, said publication to be made in a newspaper published daily (Sundays excepted) if Buch there be, in the County, otherwise once in any newspaper of the County; in making such publication it shall be sufficient for said Clerk of the Peace to do the same as a list in alphabetical form, stating therein simply the name and residence of each applicant respectively.
The Clerk of the Peace of the County in which such application for license is made, shall lay before the said Court of General Sessions, at its then next session, all applications for the license aforesaid, together with the certificate and recommendation accompanying the same, filed in his office, on the first day of the Term of said Court next succeeding the day of such application.
Said Court may or may not, in its discretion, approve of any sucli application, and in order to satisfy the Judges thereof fully in regard to the propriety of approving the same, may receive remonstrances and hear evidence and arguments for- and against the same, and establish general rules for that purpose.
If any application shall be approved, as herein provided, the Court shall endorse the word " Approved " thereon and sign the same with the date of approval. If not approved, said Court shall endorse thereon, the words "Not approved " and sign the same; it shall be the duty of the Clerk of the Peace, immediately after any such application has been so approved, to issue a proper license, signed as other State licenses are, to said applicant for the purposes aforesaid for a term to expire on the first day of June next succeeding the date of such approval. The price or fee to the State for every such license shall be the sum of Two dollars; and it shall be the duty of the Secretary of State to prepare blank forms of license to carry out the purposes of this Section, and to issue the same as required, to the several Clerks of the Peace of the Counties of this State; and provided further, however, that the provisions of this section shall not apply to the carrying of the usual weapons by the Police or other Peace Officers.
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Is the renewal then "shall issue"?
The way I read this, renewal is "shall issue". "Good cause" would probably result in denial in any state.
(5) The license issued upon initial application shall be valid for 3 years. On or before the date of
expiration of such initial license, the licensee, without further application, may renew the same
for the further period of 5 years upon payment to the Prothonotary of a fee of $65, and upon
filing with said Prothonotary an affidavit setting forth that the carrying of a concealed deadly
weapon by the licensee is necessary for personal protection or protection of the person's
property, or both, and that the person possesses all the requirements for the issuance of a
license and may make like renewal every 5 years thereafter; provided, however, that the
Superior Court, upon good cause presented to it, may inquire into the renewal request and deny
the same for good cause shown. No requirements in addition to those specified in this
paragraph may be imposed for the renewal of a license.
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Jack44:
That was the way I read it as well. Looks like without Good Cause renewal could not be denied.
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As I eat my popcorn and wonder.........you say you have 80+ ccw incidents?
What are you calling an incident?
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As I eat my popcorn and wonder.........you say you have 80+ ccw incidents?
What are you calling an incident?
Did you look at my list? It was linked in my earlier post (reply #6, page 1 of this thread). I'll bold the link so it stands out.
Any news report involving a CCWer (or off-duty LEO who is pretty much the same, except a badge is their permit) and self-defense/defense of another. I'll have about 100 incidents once I add 3 more this weekend.
FWIW a British ex-Royal Marine who was concealed carrying a handgun saved 100 people during the Kenya Mall Massacre. Doubt whether the US MSM will mention this....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2430201/British-hero-mall-massacre-Ex-Royal-Marine-handgun-saved-100-lives-terrorists-ran-amok.html
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@Paladin4CA, nice article. Thanks for the link.
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paladin: thanks for the link. You are correct that this will be surpressed by the main stream media.
Apparently it will be seen by the British
I wonder how many John Bull subjects will even think of how this plays our juxtaposition with their total ban on handguns and virtual disarming of their entire nation; at least the law abiding part.
Quite a story. Thanks again