Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
CCW Methods & Issues => General CCW Discussion => Topic started by: deviant.ollam on December 02, 2009, 05:27:09 AM
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i'm certain that this post may come across with a bit too much incredulity, given the community of people here on this forum are well-versed in living/working in DE and dealing with the CCW process in this state. however, bear with me and follow my logic, and you'll see why my eyes nearly popped out of my head when i learned some details of the legal process in the First State.
i currently reside in NJ. naturally, in that People's Republic carrying of any kind is basically impossible. i do, however, hold a valid FL carry permit and carry very often in PA, DE, VA, and other places where i travel frequently.
i am considering a move to DE. from what i understand of the law...
1. DE residents require a DE ccw specifically, other state's permits are not acceptable
2. to start the process of getting a DE ccw, one must be a resident
3. the process is not instantaneous by any stretch, and the state is a "may issue" area where your permit isn't even guaranteed to come through at all
so... if i am understanding correctly, despite having carried in DE for years now i would be legally obligated to go unarmed in Delaware for an indeterminate segment of time, at the end of which i may not even be "granted" something that should be my absolute right under the US Constitution?
i guess my questions for you folk here are...
1. how long did the process take for all of you to come through (and how long ago did you apply)?
2. do we have statistics on how often people are denied a ccw in Delaware?
3. can anyone think of a way around this situation? (maintaining dual-residency during one's period of being "in the process" of moving to DE, etc?)
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1 - yes
2 - yes
3 - yes
second set of questions...
1 - about 90 days
2 - I know of one person who was denied.
3 - Cannot advise you of anything like this..... But, I DO see alot of cars registered with out of state tags...
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about 90 days
well, that's not quite so horrible, i suppose. given that, plus the ability to open carry during the interim. (as much as i dislike open carry, i suppose the state isn't "forcing" her citizens to be disarmed. i'll ask some more open carry questions in another thread)
I know of one person who was denied.
if it's not too much prying into another's life for me to ask... do you know of why they were denied? does the state have to give a reason?
speaking of reasons, from what i saw of the statues being summarized elsewhere, part of the application process is a statement describing why you feel the need to carry a concealed firearm, right? what sort of response do most people give to that inquiry?
is simply saying something like "for personal protection in an uncertain world" or even "i've been doing it for years already in delaware and would like to continue doing so as a resident" going to be frowned upon as an answer? what is the best thing to state?
I do see alot of cars registered with out of state tags
hrm... that would lead me to an entirely other off-topic question which perhaps i'll ask in the Clubhouse forum. i'm surely curious about the process of vehicle registration and inspection in DE. i hadn't given it much thought before now. in NJ we have "private" inspection places as well as state-run spots... so you can go to the state for free if your vehicle is in great shape or you can pay a private gas station a fee and sometimes they'll not scrutinize as hard on something like wider tires or a small crack in a tail light. i'm going to have to start Googling to see if it would make more sense to keep vehicles registered elsewhere for insurance and inspection purposes.
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The other PITA for you will be...... You need 5 references in the county where you reside. What state do you WORK in?
For the reason on the application, I put: " For self protection and protection of property - see attached" Then I typed up 5 reasons why I needed a CCDW. If you list for personal protection, it will be kicked out before you could turn around to exit the building.
Also PM inbound....
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If you list for personal protection, it will be kicked out before you could turn around to exit the building.
I disagree I used "For protection of person and property or both" and I didn't have a problem also I know quite a few people who have used the same and never had a problem.
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The other PITA for you will be...... You need 5 references in the county where you reside.
ugh. sometimes the ways laws are written really surprise me. well, i'm more than happy to accompany some of you folk to the range as soon as possible once i'm settled in to DE and if you find me to be of good character after a few trips, maybe some of you will vouch for the fact that i'm not a murderous maniac.
as far as work... i'm an independent consultant in the security auditing field. i do trainings, assessments, and penetration tests on facilities all around the tri-state area, but i don't have too many solid contacts in Delaware. most of the people i know in PA and NJ are LEOs and Feds... pity that one's references have to be from in-state.
i do have family down there, however. maybe they'll be acceptable. does the form require these references to be some sort of third party who is not directly linked to you (direct family, that is)?
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If you list for personal protection, it will be kicked out before you could turn around to exit the building.
I disagree I used "For protection of person and property or both" and I didn't have a problem also I know quite a few people who have used the same and never had a problem.
RECENTLY??? I was told by the lady who works at the Prothonotary office it could NOT be just that. You had to list reasons WHY you needed it.
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I know people who used it as recent as this summer that used it.
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If you list for personal protection, it will be kicked out before you could turn around to exit the building.
I disagree I used "For protection of person and property or both" and I didn't have a problem also I know quite a few people who have used the same and never had a problem.
I have had several students use the same statement on their app here in Sussex and Kent with on problem. But then again I had a student who wrote out an eight sentence paragraph and was called in to explain. ???
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I always say too much info can get you into trouble.
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Deviant,
the references must NOT be related to you (in any way shape or form) and must live in the same county as you.
My uncle is a balif with Superior Court. I can only tell you what the prothon.'s office told him to relay to me... "She must describe or explain what or why she needs the permit. Tell her not to just write down for protection of herself or her property." I didn't -- i have rentals which I collect cash from each month, and I made it through without any delays.
My advice? Call and talk to someone in the Pro'.s office and ask yourself.
Cheers,
Moosie
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Hi Deviant?
If you really want to know about the Delaware CCW laws, you should talk to a lawyer that Is up on this stuff and from this state, or some one from the court In the county you want to get whatever from? Is your Florida CCW an out of state CCW? If It Is, you can not carry In PA. with that CCW! I have my out of state CCW from FL. and I had to get an out of state CCW from PA. to also carry there. I just got mine from PA. because of that. Check befor you find out the hard way, don't just assume.
Do your self a favor and get the latest copy of " Travelers Guide to the Firearm Laws of the Fifty States " I need the newest copy myself, I have the 2008 copy and I know that some things have changed. And you must remember that this Is just a guide and not the law In concrete!!! But Is some place to start you search. And another very good tool In the internet. Good luck and do your home work.
Semper Fi all. Hank.
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Is your Florida CCW an out of state CCW? If It Is, you can not carry In PA. with that CCW
see, i hear a lot of conflicting word there, and the last thing i learned (after some back and forth) from a few police organizations is that PA does accept the FL permit in any form.
Where things get odd is the fact that Florida does NOT actually have a distinction for Resident / Non-Resident in their paperwork... it's just "The Florida CCW Permit" and that's it.
Now, a number of other states have implemented residency restrictions on their reciprocity conditions. But, as far as Florida goes, that list is allegedly limited to: Colorado, Michigan, New Hampshire, and South Carolina. That group of four is also confirmed by Florida's own state web site...
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/news/concealed_carry.html (http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/news/concealed_carry.html)
... as well as the bible of CCW Reciprocity, the online interactive map at USACarry...
http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html (http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html)
Not only is USA Carry almost always spot-on, but the Florida web site states explicitly that "The reciprocity information on this page is ALWAYS CURRENT" (emphasis theirs)
Still, better safe than sorry... so folk should surely post details here of any evidence they have to the contrary with respect to PA concealed carry. (And it should be mentioned anytime we start talking about carry in other states that school zones are only legal if you have a CCW from the state where the school is located.)
Travelers Guide to the Firearm Laws of the Fifty States
ah yes, a fine publication and it's good that you've mentioned it here.
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From PA Atty general:
"Note: It has come to the attention of the Office of Attorney General that there has been confusion over the applicability of Pennsylvania's reciprocal privileges with regard to the residency status of an individual who has been issued a valid license/permit. It is the position of the Office of Attorney General that recognition within Pennsylvania is based on the issuance to an individual of a valid license/permit by the reciprocal contracting state, and not on the license/permit holder's place of residence. "
IANAL, BUT i'd read that as PA accepting nonresident FLA licenses.
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184 (http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184)
That being said, it's very easy and inexpensive to get a PA LTCF (Centre County - http://www.co.centre.pa.us/sheriff/license_application.asp (http://www.co.centre.pa.us/sheriff/license_application.asp) ) So I have both FLA and PA.
I like the Belt and Suspenders approach! ::)
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according to the legality of the reprocity between florida and delaware there is a huge grey area. technically you can carry on a florida non resident permit in delaware as a resident until someone decides to pull the agreement. is it advised not really but legally according to the reporcity your covered. i have had both florida resident and non resident the permit is the same other than the address on the permit. so like i say alot there is only black and white but with this issue there is a def a HUGE grey area.
go ahead and start the contradictions to this posting but this is technically a Loophole in both states wording of the reprocity acts
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To Deviant.
I'll try one more time, let me put It this way. My main home Is In Delaware, that's what Is listed for my tax Info and I do not live In Florida, so I got an out of state CCW so that I would have reciprocity from some other states that DE. does not cover, when I got this I also got a yellow sheet from FL. " An advisory regarding other states where your concealed carry license Is valid " And It says that your FL. CCW is currently valid In the following 32 states, and It names the states and most of them have # from 1-6 next to them. If you turn that yellow sheet over It will tell you what each # means, PA has #1&6 and #6 states just why you must go to PA for there out of state CCW. If you carry In PA. without there out of state CCW, you may find yourself In a funny looking striped suit and then you may loose you right to carry In any state. Just a word to the wise!
This Is the last I have to say on this.
Semper Fi all, Hank