Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
CCW Methods & Issues => General CCW Discussion => Topic started by: FreakShow on December 03, 2016, 09:56:22 PM
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Being a license holder, can i buy a gun from another holder without going through an FFL?
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Yes.
There isn't even a requirement to keep a record of the transaction... but the seller would be well-advised to create a bill of sale that included a copy of your Delaware DL and CCDW permit.
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was just wondering. Thanks for the info!
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11 Del C. § 1448A Criminal history record checks for sales of firearms. (http://delcode.delaware.gov/title11/c005/sc07/index.shtml#1448A)
(e) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
...
(5) Transactions in which the potential buyer or transferee holds a valid concealed deadly weapons license pursuant to §§ 1441, 1441A and 1441B of this title; and
Note that the seller does not have to be a permit holder (IIRC) if a DE resident.
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Yeah as far as i know only the buyer needs the ccw, seller doesnt matter
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Question answered. Let's move on. It's legal.
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Question answered. Let's move on. It's legal.
LOL
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Just before Thanksgiving I tried to purchase an AR 15 from a guy from Wilmington, the rifle was posted on Armslist. Had it all set up to meet him after work, told him I had a DE CCDW and that a background check was unnecessary. A couple of hours later he text me that he had called State Troopers and Starquest both of which told him the sale required a background check. So I text him back a copy of DE law stating I was exempt but he felt "uncomfortable" to go ahead with the sale without running up to Starquest in rush hour traffic. I couldn't do it (I was leaving for SC for the holiday, and I wouldn't just on principle). What is it with gun owners not knowing the law? I was willing to make a copy of my CCDW and create a bill of sale no problem for his records. Really pissed me off! Same thing happened at the last gun show at Nur Temple. A guy was selling some of his private guns at the show and he also was insistent on a background check, even after I explained a CCDW holder does not need one for private sales. Come on people, a CCDW should mean more than a way for the state to keep track of us!
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The new Delaware AG needs to have us (our state resident ccdw permit holders) put on the Permanent Brady Permit list. Be done with all this nonsense. We who hold valid CCDW permits have been vetted enough times that there should be an exemption for us pertaining to background checks.
Permanent Brady Permit (https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/permanent-brady-permit-chart)
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A lot of folks are probably confused and a bit uncertain as to what they may do. I mean, many people know that the backgrounds checks are required, because that's what gets talked about. And even if he did call DSP, he may not have given all of the facts (such as your CCW). Or, the person on the other end of the telephone may not know the law, or (more than likely) is uncomfortable blindly dispensing advice without being certain of the facts. As far as calling a business that stands to make or not make money as a result of their advice, well, just call the Miller brothers for their opinion on that one.
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Similar thing used to happen to me when I had a C&R (Curio & relic) FFL03 license. I was trying to buy some old guns on Gunbroker, and the sellers refused to sell to me even when it was legal to do so. Regardless of evidence of legality. It happens a lot.
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Similar experience to @rikwik. Bought a rifle from friend who is also DE CCDW permit holder. He insisted on a background check even though the FFL confirmed that it wasn't necessary. He wanted an ironclad paper trail.
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I also want an ironclad paper trail. In this day of litigation, I want every protection I can get. The letter of the law is fine, but taking it one step above that protects everyone involved.
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I would never sell or buy a gun without going through an FFL, regardless if it is legal to do so. It gives me peace of mind knowing there is a record that whatever happened before the purchase or after the sale it is not my responsibility..
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I write up two receipts, with seller and buyers signatures, names & addresses, gun description amd serial number. I check the other person's ID. Good enough for me. If the law says I don't need to make the transfer through an FFL, I am fine with it (no offense Chris!). Now if the person I am dealing with seems "shady", or hestitates giving me ID....then the transfer comes to a halt.
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I write up two receipts, with seller and buyers signatures, names & addresses, gun description amd serial number. I check the other person's ID. Good enough for me. If the law says I don't need to make the transfer through an FFL, I am fine with it (no offense Chris!). Now if the person I am dealing with seems "shady", or hestitates giving me ID....then the transfer comes to a halt.
Agreed. I've done transfers to another CCDW permit holder. Printed a receipt with copies of permits and DL's, we both signed it, and each of us kept a copy.
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ahhhh, shady people, lol
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That's right, a copy of license, permit and signature kept in your records is an "Ironclad paper trail." and it's legal. The receipt kept in your records is the same as the receipt kept in an ffl's records.
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I write up two receipts, with seller and buyers signatures, names & addresses, gun description amd serial number. I check the other person's ID. Good enough for me. If the law says I don't need to make the transfer through an FFL, I am fine with it (no offense Chris!). Now if the person I am dealing with seems "shady", or hestitates giving me ID....then the transfer comes to a halt.
That s a good way to protect yourself. I decided to only go through FFL so I don't have to keep track of the records.
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I found a couple printable forms online for the transfer of firearms that look to me like they cover everything:
http://www.defensivestrategies.org/downloads/PrivateTransferForm.pdf
http://www.gunwarrior.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/billofsalefillable.pdf
Look them over to see if they are lacking in any way. If so, there's always the good old 4473 (https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download)
:)
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Now that we're all discussing this, it might be a good idea to reference the DE criminal code that CBmarine mentioned (below) right on the receipt. Could be helpful.
11 Del C. § 1448A Criminal history record checks for sales of firearms.
(e) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
...
(5) Transactions in which the potential buyer or transferee holds a valid concealed deadly weapons license pursuant to §§ 1441, 1441A and 1441B of this title; and
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I love my firearms and the thought of selling any of them never occurred to me. :'(
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i've ridden motorcycles for years, but when you see that bright shinny new one, the wheels in your mind start turning