Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
CCW Methods & Issues => No Carry Locations => Topic started by: SturmRugerSR9 on July 20, 2012, 11:15:48 PM
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What a tradgety. 12 people killed and approx. 40 wounded in the midnight showing of the new "Batman" movie. I received a email today from the Gun Owners of America stating that the Anti-Gun Lobby and Anti- Gun politicians are on the warpath all ready about this incidence, claiming that guns should be banned all over. I found out that this theater is a "Gun Free Zone" meaning no one is allowed to carry, even with a CCW permit, in that theater. I guess the killer knew that, and felt he was safe from some one shooting him. There he was armed to the hilt, and not one person in that theater could do a @@@@ thing to defend themselves or others.
Groups like the Brady Campaign saying that this was just another mass killing because people were allowed to buy guns. New York Mayor Bloomberg was breaking his neck to get to a microphone to make negative comments about gun ownership. Piers Morgan himself and guest were denouncing gun ownership. Hillary Clinton Barack Obama and eric Holder are trying to get the UN Gun Ban Treaty brought to America so the Democrat controlled US Senate can ratify it as we speak.
Our of all the people in that theater, not one person was able to bring this guy down and save dozens. I recalled that just about a week ago a story about a pair that came into an internet cafe in Florida weilding guns attempting to rob the place, possibly killing patrons, and a 60 something senoir, Samuel Willianson, armed with his own Legal Concealed Carry pistol fired and shot one criminal in the @@@, and ran the other one off and saved anyone from being harmed in the cafe.
Shamefully, there was no Samuel Williamson in the theater in Aroura Colorado last night, able to save those 12 young people that died, or the 40 plus wounded.
The attacker just stood there and fired, and fired, and fired at will, with out fear for his own life. because it was a "Gun Free Zone".
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Maybe I'm just being an optimist at exactly the wrong time. Throughout history, savagery brought about changes to correct the source of the problem. I’m not going to sheriff-up and join a posse but competent persons should heed the call and provide protection for their family (extended as it may be). Maybe this shooting could be a catalyst. Come on...if cops were called then what happened? Where were they? Don't they respond to complaints? I can ask questions all night, but at least I’m doing something about it!
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Reports are still early and they are saying this guy was wearing body armor. Any regular CCW carrier would have been greatly outgunned. Most of us carry with the intentions of protecting ourselves at close distances and carry short barreled firearms for concealment convenience. As much as I would like to think that I could have made a difference in a situation like this trying to fire across a smoke and/or gas filled theater more than likely would have been an exercise in futility. Unless you were extremely close when the shooting started the best you could hope for is to make a tactical retreat and get you and your family out.
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I've been following the story on the news, very sad...real tragedy. May God give comfort to the heart and mind to those involved.
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Wondering what effect this may have on area theaters in regards to heightened metal dectectors/security/pat downs etc .... While I cc all day every day and simply don't go where not legal ....wife wants to go to movies today... :o and didn't want to be made an example by someone in light of the co tragedy
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pjd832 : Good point. I'll speak up if I see or hear how this unravels locally. This is the best forum for getting that kind of heads-up out.
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Even though this jerk was wearing body armor, wouldn't a couple of rounds from a 9mm, 40S&W or .45acp to the chest take the wind out of his sails?
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Even though this jerk was wearing body armor, wouldn't a could of rounds of 9mm, 40S&W or .45acp to the chest take the wind out of his sails?
Yes... and this is why I carry a Glock 29. A round of full-power 10mm Auto carries more kinetic energy than any other common semi-auto ammunition.
I'm a pessimist, and/or an a**hole, and both would have come in handy in Aurora the other night.
I'll never go to a movie unarmed again.
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RFScanner,
I'm betting a round from a 9mm, .40 or .45 cal through the gas mask would have dropped him. Not a shot that hard to make, considering the targets at a lot of ranges are 8 1/2" in diameter. That is the size of most peoples face. My SR9 holds 18 rounds and the last time I fired I put all of them in the 8 1/2" target area and I don't fire that often, so I know most of the rest of you could do it.
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RFScanner,
I'm betting a round from a 9mm, .40 or .45 cal through the gas mask would have dropped him. Not a shot that hard to make, considering the targets at a lot of ranges are 8 1/2" in diameter. That is the size of most peoples face. My SR9 holds 18 rounds and the last time I fired I put all of them in the 8 1/2" target area and I don't fire that often, so I know most of the rest of you could do it.
+1
Every time we go to the range, the first thing I do is draw from the holster and take a headshot at 10 yards. I always hit it, even if I haven't been shooting for a few months. If I didn't make it, I'd order a few thousand rounds of 10mm and come back two or three times a week until I was confident again.
I need to have at least a fighting chance. If they start putting metal detectors at theaters, I'll never go to a movie again.
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Wondering what effect this may have on area theaters in regards to heightened metal dectectors/security/pat downs etc .... While I cc all day every day and simply don't go where not legal ....wife wants to go to movies today... :o and didn't want to be made an example by someone in light of the co tragedy
One little note, corporate policies are not law. So, even if having the weapon is against their policy, the most that they can do is ask you to leave. If you refuse to leave or secure the weapon outside of their establishment, then that changes things -- but mainly in regard to trespassing.
Remember, concealed means they can't see it, and if they can't see it -- it ain't there! :)
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RFScanner,
I'm betting a round from a 9mm, .40 or .45 cal through the gas mask would have dropped him. Not a shot that hard to make, considering the targets at a lot of ranges are 8 1/2" in diameter. That is the size of most peoples face. My SR9 holds 18 rounds and the last time I fired I put all of them in the 8 1/2" target area and I don't fire that often, so I know most of the rest of you could do it.
Under no stress, excitement, panic, etc. ....
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Under no stress, excitement, panic, etc. ....
+1
But it's our duty to try, if we can.
IMHO, YMMV, AMWPBL.
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RFScanner,
I'm betting a round from a 9mm, .40 or .45 cal through the gas mask would have dropped him. Not a shot that hard to make, considering the targets at a lot of ranges are 8 1/2" in diameter. That is the size of most peoples face. My SR9 holds 18 rounds and the last time I fired I put all of them in the 8 1/2" target area and I don't fire that often, so I know most of the rest of you could do it.
No doubt, but anyone with marginal skills would of been able to at least slow him down with a couple of rounds from these calibers to the chest.
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Even if we were only able to slow him down, it would force him to waste ammo shutting us down.
Imagine how many people that might save, even if all we ended up doing is taking several for the team... if a few more people got out alive because he had to send rounds my way, I could live die with that.
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A lot being said here to reply to. If I am at the movies I am going to be with, at a minimum, my wife and sometimes other members of my family as well. My first responsibility is to them. I do not mean to sound selfish but I carry for my safety and my families safety. The sheeple come second. I am not a combat veteran so when an explosive device goes off and gas and/or smoke filled the theater, the guy starts firing, people panic and run for the exits, people are screaming, I am not sure how I will react beyond the need to protect my family first. If I were close enough to him when the SHTF I would like to think that I could have a legitimate chance to effectively neutralize him but beyond that I would go into survival mode. Once I get my family out will I intentionally go back in and face an adversary wearing armor who has me greatly outgunned just to sacrifice myself? Remember, he has the gas mask, I don't.
As for how well you shoot at the range that is all well and good because practicing to proficiency is important. The range does not throw smoke or gas, the range does not shoot back with superior firepower and the range does not place a flood of panicking people between you and the target.
Something else to think about. The police are not about to charge into the building, they will first secure the perimeter, but when they do enter, make sure they can tell the difference in the smoke filled theater between you with your gun and the real bad guy.
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Wondering what effect this may have on area theaters in regards to heightened metal dectectors/security/pat downs etc .... While I cc all day every day and simply don't go where not legal ....wife wants to go to movies today... :o and didn't want to be made an example by someone in light of the co tragedy
One little note, corporate policies are not law. So, even if having the weapon is against their policy, the most that they can do is ask you to leave. If you refuse to leave or secure the weapon outside of their establishment, then that changes things -- but mainly in regard to trespassing.
Remember, concealed means they can't see it, and if they can't see it -- it ain't there! :)
agreed!..that is my sop...i carry everywhere other than places prohibibited by actual law...and have never had a problem or been asked to leave as im very diligent of not printing....even though the corp. policy isnt law...and you can only be asked to leave or secure your weapon and re-enter...in light of the recent event..i can see where an over zealous security guard with a wand thinking policy is law could make it into a huge ordeal...and with my wife not being supportive a pat down/metal detectorat the door would be "so embarrassing" to her..i decided to avoid the situation all together and we just went to dinner and then took her shopping..lol ;D...
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Wondering what effect this may have on area theaters in regards to heightened metal dectectors/security/pat downs etc .... While I cc all day every day and simply don't go where not legal ....wife wants to go to movies today... :o and didn't want to be made an example by someone in light of the co tragedy
One little note, corporate policies are not law. So, even if having the weapon is against their policy, the most that they can do is ask you to leave. If you refuse to leave or secure the weapon outside of their establishment, then that changes things -- but mainly in regard to trespassing.
Remember, concealed means they can't see it, and if they can't see it -- it ain't there! :)
agreed!..that is my sop...i carry everywhere other than places prohibibited by actual law...and have never had a problem or been asked to leave as im very diligent of not printing....even though the corp. policy isnt law...and you can only be asked to leave or secure your weapon and re-enter...in light of the recent event..i can see where an over zealous security guard with a wand thinking policy is law could make it into a huge ordeal...and with my wife not being supportive a pat down/metal detectorat the door would be "so embarrassing" to her..id decided to avoid the situation all together and we just went to dinner and then took her shopping..lol ;D...
A few of the Philly and PA re-re "leaders" made it onto the local and national news today. Listening to them spew their non-sense, coupled with the how the sheeple typically think, creates an unworkable plan. I'm not going to waste our time talking about the most of the junk, but I will comment on the thoughts of entrance security -- which is something that a lot of people will (and do) have a lot of unrealistic (and brilliant) ideas on. First, we can't have LEOs stationed at the entrances of theater, malls, and the like for the obvious reason that there simply isn't enough LEOs. Additionally, it's a slippery slope, because the next step would be grocery stores, department stores, McDeath, gas stations, and so forth. Second, the idea of security guards. Really, what are most of these folks going to do? Several years ago, Happy Harry's had a bunch of visible security guards. They came in two flavors -- the 70-year-old armed kind, and the scrawny, unarmed, 22-year-old kind. Neither appeared very intimidating. And normally, these places only have one guy on duty at a time, so that only lessened the barrier. And lastly, metal detectors. Most (but obviously not all) of the metal detectors are set up in places where there are armed folks with the power of arrest stationed near them. No one ever gets bitchy at these places (well, except the airport) when things slow down. If the movie theater hires the scrawny, dumb, 22-year-old to man the scanner -- how well is that going to go? Do you know how hard it is to go into the NCC courthouse and NOT buzz -- and that's after taking everything off!!! Folks will get a little irritated after dropping a king's ransom to see 20 minutes of commercials, and have that delayed because the 20-year-old mom up front keeps ringing because of her car keys, spare car keys, mobile telephone, belt buckle, metal tin of mints, nipple rings, necklaces, bracelets, watch, grill, and funky metal tag in her sneakers.
It's going to be a tough road ahead, with us being forced to listen to these short-sighted folks coming up with the solutions to the problems that were caused by them in e first place (with is a sympathetic attitude towards criminals, and a general misunderstanding of what causes crime).
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completely agree with you...
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So, we went to the DE State Fair yesterday afternoon.
They made us park a mile from nowhere, and towed us on a "shuttle" behind a tractor to the entrance... where we saw a sign banning firearms, and warning us that bags were subject to search.
So, my wife and I got back on the same "shuttle," and rode back out to my car. I was inclined to just leave, but we had driven an hour, so we locked my Safepacker and my wife's 340PD in the trunk, and hopped back onto the same "shuttle."
And then nobody looked at us twice. No metal detectors, no security of any kind. We could have OC'd, and nobody would have even noticed.
So, there we are at the fair... with Senators Carper and Coons, John Carney, and the VP's son around somewhere (we ran into Senator Coons; they all had booths in one of the buildings). No security. In fact, they had negative security: they disarmed at least two trained marksmen with their brilliant f***ing sign.
Next time, we're carrying, or we're not going in at all.
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Suggest you all read the forum here titled "No carrying at the Fair" Would saved you a lot of trouble.
It is "State Property"
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Suggest you all read the forum here titled "No carrying at the Fair" Would saved you a lot of trouble.
It is "State Property"
I'm not sure that it is state property, as the property records indicate the State Fair's corporation as the owner.
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I wouldn't worry too much, I am sure all the bad guys do the same as you did when the no weapons allowed signs.
So, we went to the DE State Fair yesterday afternoon.
They made us park a mile from nowhere, and towed us on a "shuttle" behind a tractor to the entrance... where we saw a sign banning firearms, and warning us that bags were subject to search.
So, my wife and I got back on the same "shuttle," and rode back out to my car. I was inclined to just leave, but we had driven an hour, so we locked my Safepacker and my wife's 340PD in the trunk, and hopped back onto the same "shuttle."
And then nobody looked at us twice. No metal detectors, no security of any kind. We could have OC'd, and nobody would have even noticed.
So, there we are at the fair... with Senators Carper and Coons, John Carney, and the VP's son around somewhere (we ran into Senator Coons; they all had booths in one of the buildings). No security. In fact, they had negative security: they disarmed at least two trained marksmen with their brilliant f***ing sign.
Next time, we're carrying, or we're not going in at all.
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If, in fact, the theater in Aroura is located in a “gun free” zone then the situation guarantees (guaranteed) success for the nutcase shooter. If I’m ever again in a position to make important decisions I will remember this folly of thought.
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Here is a former SEAL's perspective on the shooting:
http://sofrep.com/9657/navy-seal-lessons-learned-aurora-colorado-survive/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sofrep+(SOFREP) (http://sofrep.com/9657/navy-seal-lessons-learned-aurora-colorado-survive/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sofrep+(SOFREP))
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Excellent article. Evasion is my first line of defense. While I go to the range at least 3 times a month, I have no illusion how I would act in a real life. My main reason for getting my ccw was to protect myself and my family. But, my first line of defense is to get away from the situation. If I can't then I would pull my weapon and shoot, not necessarily to kill, but to escape. I would certianly not re-enter a situation once I and my family evaded the problem. I am no hero and have no dreams to become one. I would rather be a living coward than a dead hero. I'll leave the heroics to the men and women who are better trained than I. This is just my opinion.
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I would rather be a living coward than a dead hero.
No one has the right to call a man a coward because he chose to save his family when faced with overwhelming odds.
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Metal detectors would have not stopped this nut. He bought a ticket, entered the theater, went out the side door, propped it open so he could return, which he did dressed in armor and with several guns.
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Disregard, did not notice there was a second page on this topic.