Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
CCW Methods & Issues => General CCW Discussion => Topic started by: 8thFA on March 11, 2016, 01:37:59 PM
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What are your thoughts on carrying while serving as a security guard in a volunteer capacity? Church, civic event, etc? Is that even something that is legal to do in delaware?
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Concealed is concealed as long as it is not in a place where you are prohibited by law from carrying. Like a school or state building I carry everytime I go to church or any church function and they know I carry at least the pastor does and appreciates it. Evil knows no bounds
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Sadly yes I pack in church too. But do you think there are any legal issues if I serve as security at the front door of church while packing?
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Are you there as security or just a "greeter" to welcome people to the church? You carry concealed as a greeter.
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As long as they are ok with you being armed but concealed is concealed how would anyone know? My church is ok with me and quite a few others carrying all of the people that CC know who we are just in case there is ever an issue. Not sure about the whole serving as security at the church.
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I think it depends on the policies of the place or group that runs the event. If they are opposed to you carrying, which is their right, then you can either not carry or not attend. If you are carrying against their event rules, and an "problem" occurs, you may be held in a civil lawsuit, as well as be kicked out of the group or organization. Be smart and advised.
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If your church is opposed to you carrying mine will welcome you.
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This would be serving on a security "team" standing at the front door.
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There in my opinion is two ways you can handle this one is conceal carry and say nothing and possibly run the risk of being kicked off of church property if they are anti gun if somehow they find out you are carrying. Or the better of the choices is to talk to your pastor and see how he feels about it this will make you feel more comfortable while carrying at church knowing that they support the 2A. In the event something happens and you have to pull out your firearm they know you are one of the good guys. They may already have a few others that carry in the church and it is good to know who is on your side in the event something goes down that warrants lethal force. It was something that I pondered over when I started carrying my pastors were actually 2 of my references after talking to them and telling them what I was doing. They fully supported what I was doing. I am often called upon to serve as "security" for events as well as the others that carry in the church. Just my two cents agree with it or not just how I handled it. There are some people in your life that should know that you carry and I think if you are going to carry in church the pastors should be at least the few that know. I have made many more friends in the church amongst those that carry we all share a common bond. To protect ourselves and those we love and the church is our family at least that is how I feel about my church. I will protect them if the need arises.
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Thanks everyone, very helpful.
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I always carry at my church. The pastor knows I carry and he welcomes it. Also the outreach minister at the church also has his carry permit. Very friendly group and a wonderful Christian church.
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If you look up the requirements for a Delaware Security professional there is separate training for unarmed and armed guards. I'd suggest you not be assigned a title aside from 'greeter'.
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If your church is assigning you the official position of security guard, you must have the training that requires, and they must realize they are liable for any "incidents or accidents" it causes. If it is not the official policy of the church, then you are going to be on the hook and prosecuted for any "incident or accident" that happen. But remember this, the Lord visits many people in jails, you won't be unique.
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If your church is assigning you the official position of security guard, you must have the training that requires, and they must realize they are liable for any "incidents or accidents" it causes. If it is not the official policy of the church, then you are going to be on the hook and prosecuted for any "incident or accident" that happen. But remember this, the Lord visits many people in jails, you won't be unique.
With that said I would refrain from the term security for the event. In the event that something goes down which I would pray it does not. You are just a member of the church that was at the event and was armed and neutralized the threat being in fear for your own life. We have a youth night at my church and I go carrying of course we had an incident where some people decided to show up and cause trouble at the church. It was dealt with quickly and without incident. No firearms were drawn and I know there were at least 5 of us there that night carrying. The trouble makers were nothing but a bunch of hot air looking to make trouble with a member of the church the quickly found out it was a bad idea.
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In a previous church, we were on the Safety Committee.
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I know this thread is drifting away from the original question but I just wanted to add: There appears no benefit for a lawful CCDW to go anywhere near a "security" type involvement. The Delaware code for security type work tends to restrict many of the freedoms that we now hold. To start with an annual fee (to not exceed $600) is required.
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I know this thread is drifting away from the original question but I just wanted to add: There appears no benefit for a lawful CCDW to go anywhere near a "security" type involvement. The Delaware code for security type work tends to restrict many of the freedoms that we now hold. To start with an annual fee (to not exceed $600) is required.
Thanks. That's what I'm thinking. I carry in church and I will continue, but I'm afraid of hanging my carcass out to dry if something happens and I'm serving in an official capacity.
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This may be a little late but I had someone else asking about "security" in the church.
http://dsp.delaware.gov/privateinvestigator%2526privatesecurityemployees.shtml
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Concealed is concealed, why does anyone have to know, as long as your carry legally. Isn't that the whole idea. Why blow your horn when you don't have to.
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Concealed is concealed, why does anyone have to know, as long as your carry legally. Isn't that the whole idea. Why blow your horn when you don't have to.
I'm carrying concealed, my original question though was if working security was something that was really legal to do. Specifically, if there was an incident. Would the authorities give me a hard time for shooting someone while in a volunteer capacity as a security officer.
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Concealed is concealed, why does anyone have to know, as long as your carry legally. Isn't that the whole idea. Why blow your horn when you don't have to.
I'm carrying concealed, my original question though was if working security was something that was really legal to do. Specifically, if there was an incident. Would the authorities give me a hard time for shooting someone while in a volunteer capacity as a security officer.
Let's refocus on to the continuum from unarmed sheeple to an active shooter incident. Also change the terminology from 'security' to 'safety'. The 'security' label appears to have negative effects if unlicensed. As mentioned previously, be sure that your pastoral staff is aware and in agreement with your preparation.
First your situational awareness is in itself is a layer of protection for your church members and more importantly your pastoral staff. A firm handshake, direct eye contact, and a quick evaluation can queue up a person of interest for further observation and will likely disabuse them of the notion of causing trouble on your watch. Don't key on just general appearance or religious jewelry; new jihadi guidance includes shaving the beard and wearing a cross.
Second, seek to defuse the situation. (An incident successfully defused was related earlier in this thread). The person may be spiritually overwrought, mentally unbalanced, or just rowdy.
Third, if deadly force is required, be sure that you can recount to the judge your rationale at each step of your actions.
Finally, your willingness to be the sheepdog in His service may have negative earthly consequences but eternal rewards.
A good read that actually extends well beyond the normal precautions is Pablo Birriel's Ministry of Defense: Executive Protection of the Ministry.
"Your job is to give them a difficult look, to show that their loss would be larger than their gain. If you can do this, then they will overlook your man or woman of God and go to a less protected target."
"A valid part of setting up your protection is the ability to read expressions and body language. The preeminent data on reading “micro expressions” was developed by Dr. Paul Ekman, and it would be in the best interest of all parties engaged in protection to review it and utilize it. Dr. Ekman has determined in his research that individuals give glimpses of deception in their expressions. In other words the eyes are the window to the soul, just as scripture suggests."
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Let's refocus on to the continuum from unarmed sheeple to an active shooter incident. Also change the terminology from 'security' to 'safety'. The 'security' label appears to have negative effects if unlicensed. As mentioned previously, be sure that your pastoral staff is aware and in agreement with your preparation.
First your situational awareness is in itself is a layer of protection for your church members and more importantly your pastoral staff. A firm handshake, direct eye contact, and a quick evaluation can queue up a person of interest for further observation and will likely disabuse them of the notion of causing trouble on your watch. Don't key on just general appearance or religious jewelry; new jihadi guidance includes shaving the beard and wearing a cross.
Second, seek to defuse the situation. (An incident successfully defused was related earlier in this thread). The person may be spiritually overwrought, mentally unbalanced, or just rowdy.
Third, if deadly force is required, be sure that you can recount to the judge your rationale at each step of your actions.
Finally, your willingness to be the sheepdog in His service may have negative earthly consequences but eternal rewards.
A good read that actually extends well beyond the normal precautions is Pablo Birriel's Ministry of Defense: Executive Protection of the Ministry.
"Your job is to give them a difficult look, to show that their loss would be larger than their gain. If you can do this, then they will overlook your man or woman of God and go to a less protected target."
"A valid part of setting up your protection is the ability to read expressions and body language. The preeminent data on reading “micro expressions” was developed by Dr. Paul Ekman, and it would be in the best interest of all parties engaged in protection to review it and utilize it. Dr. Ekman has determined in his research that individuals give glimpses of deception in their expressions. In other words the eyes are the window to the soul, just as scripture suggests."
That's very helpful. Thanks.