question on delaware gun law .464

[8thFA]

I was looking over section .464 of the delaware gun law (justification of use of force in self protection), and in .464, paragraph (e)2a, it talks avoided the use of deadly force by "surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim".  Surely this doesn't mean handing over my wallet if some joker pulls a knife or gun on me?

What say you guys?

[ChrisCar]

Deadly force could be justified in your scenario.  Keep in mind that §464 talks about use of force for self-protection (protection of self isn't protection of your property, that's §466, below).   If someone sticks a knife or gun in your face and demands your wallet, the key phrase of the statute (IMHO) is emphasized below:

"(e) The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section if: [...]

"(2) The defendant knows that the necessity of using deadly force can be avoided with complete safety by retreating, by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that the defendant abstain from performing an act which the defendant is not legally obligated to perform except that:[...]"

On your facts, you have no reason to believe that surrendering your wallet will leave you in "complete safety."  S/he could just as easily take your wallet and shoot/stab you.  

Your facts would also be covered under the protection of property statute (§466):

"The use of deadly force for the protection of property is justifiable only if the defendant believes that:

"(1) The person against whom the force is used is attempting to dispossess the defendant of the defendant's dwelling otherwise than under a claim of right to its possession; or

"(2) The person against whom the deadly force is used is attempting to commit arson, burglary, robbery or felonious theft or property destruction and either:

"a. Had employed or threatened deadly force against or in the presence of the defendant; or

"b. Under the circumstances existing at the time, the defendant believed the use of force other than deadly force would expose the defendant, or another person in the defendant's presence, to the reasonable likelihood of serious physical injury."

This is just my reading of the statutes.  I am not a Delaware-licensed attorney; this is not legal advice.  YRMV

[oldgraygeek]

First of all, I think "asserting a claim" means something more specific and legally justifiable than "give me your wallet and phone, motherf***er." I believe that the legal interpretation of that phrase is that they have a legitimate legal reason to claim ownership, such as the title of a car.

Here's my answer to your question, in real terms:
1) You need to know who your lawyer is when you're walking around with a firearm.
2) You need to be able to get in touch with him or her, even off-hours.
3) You need to know exactly what he or she expects you to say (nothing) and what not to say (anything) after a defensive shooting.

If someone pulls a knife or a gun on me, I might shoot them. Then, as I have been instructed by my attorney, I will call 911, identify myself, request police and an ambulance, and hang up. Then, I will call my attorney (or someone in his office who can get him 24/7) and let them know that I need my attorney ASAP.
Then, the police will come. They will ask me what happened. I will provide my ID including my CCDW permit, and tell them "I will cooperate fully with your investigation after my attorney arrives."

They will arrest me. That's their job. The word "arrest" comes from the French verb 'arreter," which means "to stop." Cuffing me and putting me in the back of the Crown Vic is the most effective way to stop the shooting that has happened, so they will do it.
And I will politely keep my mouth shut until my lawyer arrives.
He will talk to me in private, advise me what to say and not to say, and accompany me through the questioning.

The idea is to keep you from undermining your own defense, and from saying anything that will turn out to be demonstrably incorrect.
For example, when the police say "what happened here?" a person who doesn't know what their lawyer expects of them might say, "This guy came up to me with a big knife, he was like six feet away, and I drew my gun and shot him twice."
Then, they measure distances and count shell casings, and find out he had a Swiss Army knife, never came within twelve feet of you, and you shot him nine times. Adrenalin makes knives seem bigger, and distances seem shorter. The prosecutor says, "Why did he LIE TO THE OFFICERS??!!??" and you get charged with a crime!

Meet your lawyer. Talk to him. Find out what he expects of you. Even if they charge you a hundred or two for their time, consider it an investment in your future... in having a future.

[Tonym]

Dont let the threat of being arrested ever scare you into running your mouth without a lawyer. An arrest basically means nothing, its the conviction that counts. Dont give them anything they can use. Talk to a lawyer, then make your statment. Disregard any ideas that keeping your mouth shut makes you look guilty.

I believe this advice is worth considering at any time youre accused of a crime. Gun related or otherwise

[8thFA]

Great advice all, thank you.  Hadn't thought much about the lawyer part of carrying.

[oldgraygeek]

My wife sent me to advanced combat pistol training. The first day, the instructor asked us all, "Who's your lawyer?"
None of us had an answer.
He then proceeded to tell us just how crazy we were, running around with guns, but not knowing how we were going to avoid prison time if we ever used them.

Just a few days later, Joe Hurley's office called for computer support. I had no idea who he was, so I Googled him... read a few of his cases... and figured out he's the best criminal defense attorney in the state.
So, I went up there and became his computer guy, and he became my attorney of record.

[Steveo]

As mentioned above get yourself a lawyer lined up, see what they offer, not familiar with anyone yet still need to research, there are a few out there that offer services (USCCA, CCW) for $100 +- a year have someone set up just in case.  I will look up Joe Hurley as OGG mentioned he is local

Great advice all, thank you.  Hadn't thought much about the lawyer part of carrying.