Municipal and County Buildings

[Clarence]

There is a bill by Rep. Mitchell to make an exemption to the pre-emption statute to allow counties and municipalities to ban firearms, ammunition, explosives and "components" of firearms from their buildings.

In reading the bill, holders of a CCW license are exempt totally if kept concealed.  If you enter and immediately leave you can't be charged. I guess this means if you see the sign and the leave.


Looks to me to be aimed at the open carry folks.  

Not sure what "components" would include.  

This could be a way to get the nose in the tent to destroy pre-emption. What next? Parks, parking lots?  You see what I mean.

HB 192 and HB 202 one for counties and the other for municipalities.
Newsy Urinal said passed the house 22 to 14 with 5 not voting. Now going to Senate

Here is the text of the municipal version:

(b) Subsection (a) notwithstanding, municipal governments may adopt ordinances regulating the possession of firearms, ammunition, components of firearms, or explosives in police stations and municipal buildings which contain all of the provisions contained in this subsection.  Any ordinance adopted by a municipal government regulating possession of firearms, ammunition, components of firearms, or explosives in police stations or municipal buildings shall require that all areas where possession is restricted is clearly identified by a conspicuous sign posted at each entrance to the restricted area. The sign may also specify that persons in violation may be denied entrance to the building or be ordered to leave the building.  Any ordinance adopted by municipal governments relating to possession in police stations or municipal buildings shall also state that any person who immediately foregoes entry or immediately exits such building due to the possession of a firearm, ammunition, components of firearms, or explosives shall not be guilty of violating the ordinance.  Municipal governments may establish penalties for any intentional violation of such ordinance as deemed necessary to protect public safety.  An ordinance adopted by the municipal government shall not prevent the following in municipal buildings or police stations: (1) possession of firearms, components of firearms, and ammunition or explosives by law enforcement officers; (2) law enforcement agencies receiving shipments or delivery of firearms, components of firearms, ammunition or explosives; (3) law enforcement agencies conducting firearms safety and training programs; (4) law enforcement agencies from conducting firearm or ammunition public safety programs, donation, amnesty, or any other similar programs in police stations or municipal buildings; (5) compliance by persons subject to protection from abuse court orders; (6) carrying firearms and ammunition by persons who hold a valid license pursuant to either § 1441 or §1441A of Title 11 of this Code so long as the firearm remains concealed except for inadvertent display or for self-defense or defense of others; (7) officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed firearm; or ( agents, messengers and other employees of common carriers, banks, or business firms, whose duties require them to protect moneys, valuables and other property and are engaged in the lawful execution of such duties.
(c) For the purposes of this subsection, “municipal building”  means a building where a municipal government entity meets in its official capacity or containing the offices of elected officials and of public employees actively engaged in performing governmental business but excluding any parking facility; provided, however, that if such building is not a municipally owned or leased building, such building shall be considered a municipal building for the purposes of this section only during the time such government entity is meeting in or occupying such a building.

[RetCapt1994]

This is one of the reasons that I do not and will not support open carry. IMHO it just gives the anti-gunners ammo to be used against us. This proposed bill is an example what happens when the anti crowd attack us.

[oldgraygeek]

This is one of the reasons that I do not and will not support open carry. IMHO it just gives the anti-gunners ammo to be used against us. This proposed bill is an example what happens when the anti crowd attack us.

Agreed, Captain.
If I'm reading this right, it does not affect US at all.
It allows municipalities to enact laws to "prevent" concealed carry by people who don't have a permit (wait, isn't that illegal already?) and to basically ban open carry in those locations. It also prohibits municipalities from subjecting US to those laws, as long as we keep it in our pants.
I oppose the bill, because I agree that it breaches the wall of preemption, but this particular bill is not TEOTWAWKI for CCDW holders.

[Adrenolin]

(6) carrying firearms and ammunition by persons who hold a valid license pursuant to either § 1441 or §1441A of Title 11 of this Code so long as the firearm remains concealed except for inadvertent display or for self-defense or defense of others; (

Very important that this is in there. The ability for Delaware CCDW folk to inadvertently show a concealed firearm is important! Many states do not tolerate the accidental display of a concealed firearm like DE does. While I oppose the bill I am glad to see that in there to protect us.

I know I've displayed mine a few times by mistake by reaching up to high (grocery, hardware stores, etc) or the wind blowing an unbuttoned shirt or coat open at a gas pump, reaching for my wallet, etc. Not intentional but it does happen now and then. I'm pretty nonchalant about it in truth as I put it on in the AM and forget about it most of the day. Don't get me wrong, I do conceal and I don't flaunt it. I just don't let it rule me in my daily life, for the most part. I've even had a few great conversations, including with 2 officers because of it. There are of course times and areas I do take some additional care.

Everyone hates on DE gun laws and such but we can carry, it's really not that hard to get a CCDW, signs don't hold law, accidental display doesn't land you in jail like some other states, etc, etc. Sure, it could be better however it's pretty @@@@ good at the same time. Says the guy who lived in NJ for 14 years.  Just need to keep on top of the liberals and try to stop the further eroding of our liberties.

[groundgrid]

This bill has been passed by both the House & Senate.
I assume that the Governor will sign it.

I just read it again & have an interesting observation.

The bill can very easily be interpreted to mean that a CDW permit holder CANNOT BE ASKED NOT TO CARRY in a municipal building.

"An ordinance adopted by the county government shall not prevent the following in county buildings or police stations:...
(6) carrying firearms and ammunition by persons who hold a valid license pursuant to either § 1441 or §1441A of Title 11 of the Delaware Code so long as the firearm remains concealed except for inadvertent display or for self-defense or defense of others;'

So, what happens when one of us walks through the metal detectors at the City-County Building in Wilmington?
Who want's to test it?

[Cbmarine]

...
So, what happens when one of us walks through the metal detectors at the City-County Building in Wilmington?
Who want's to test it?

Nominations:  @OGG, @Adrenolin,...

[oldgraygeek]

...
So, what happens when one of us walks through the metal detectors at the City-County Building in Wilmington?
Who want's to test it?

Nominations:  @OGG, @Adrenolin,...

Only if I can get Joe Hurley to walk through right behind me...

[Adrenolin]

...
So, what happens when one of us walks through the metal detectors at the City-County Building in Wilmington?
Who want's to test it?

Nominations:  @OGG, @Adrenolin,...

Only if I can get Joe Hurley to walk through right behind me...

Perfect.. I'll walk in directly behind you both to watch 

[Cbmarine]

...
So, what happens when one of us walks through the metal detectors at the City-County Building in Wilmington?
Who want's to test it?

Nominations:  @OGG, @Adrenolin,...

Only if I can get Joe Hurley to walk through right behind me...

Perfect.. I'll walk in directly behind you both to watch  

I'll just read the news reports.  and when you are vindicated, I'll speak at the bill hearings to make sure that they don't amend the law.

[Adrenolin]

Really though.. Reading how it is written it does appear that if you hold a CCDW permit you are permitted to carry concealed inside these buildings. I honestly can't imagine something like this passing, as it has, but that's how I read it and obviously I'm not alone in my understanding of it.

[Clarence]

I think you have to read the bill for what it does.  It gives municipalities the right to Criminalize carrying in their buildings with some exceptions such as licensed concealed carry. Here to fore they could not do this because of pre-emption.  They could not pass a law against it.  And now they can.  And I'm sure many will.  

If you show up with a concealed weapon at a courthouse, all they can do now is tell you that you can't come in.  If you refuse you can be charged with trespass. Up to now you cannot be charged with a weapons offense as only the state has that power.  Now at least inside their buildings they can criminalize open carry.  They can not criminalize concealed carry if you have a license.