Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
General Gun Discussion => Handgun Corner => Topic started by: mominde on April 23, 2012, 01:30:05 AM
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I have a .22LR pistol. I keep getting the "a .22 won't stop anyone" lecture. As I am still waiting for my permit, I have time to try new guns before I get used to carrying this one. Should I look for something else? Is the .22 ok for cc? I am the "tiny girl with a gun" type person and don't think I could pull off anything big or heavy. Ideas?
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I have a .22LR pistol. I keep getting the "a .22 won't stop anyone" lecture. As I am still waiting for my permit, I have time to try new guns before I get used to carrying this one. Should I look for something else? Is the .22 ok for cc? I am the "tiny girl with a gun" type person and don't think I could pull off anything big or heavy. Ideas?
Sure you can do it you have someone that has firearms who can steer you in the direction of a handgun you can handle. The 22 does not have a lot of stopping power take some shooting classes or go to the range with a friend who shoots. What county are you in and are there any shooting ranges close. You should look at or try the S & W 9mm compact or 380 Bersa which is a baby 9mm a REAL NICE firearm rent one at your local range. Try one or both to see what fits for you. Let me know how you make out.
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... I keep getting the "a .22 won't stop anyone" lecture. ...
First, on the quote above, ask them for the "proof" or if they would be willing to be a test subject. Bet, you get NO volunteers! ;D
Personally, I dont want to be shot with ANYTHING from a BB gun up.... .02 Will it be a mag dump and reload, most likely.
Carry whatever you feel you can control and safely (and accurately) shoot. You could have something with more stopping power but not like to shoot it because when you shot it once, it almost ripped your arm off. So now it's a safe queen.
If in a fire fight, yes I'd want something bigger than a .22. If I'm being an genius trying to car jack you with a knife, your .22 will change my intentions real quick.
ANYTHING be better than NOTHING!
[flame suit on]Waiting for comments[/flame suit]
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I have to agree with Radnor. Something is better than nothing. But the MOST IMPORTANT thing is where the bullets go. A missed shot with a big gun does no good. A precise shot with a little gun will always be better. Your choice should be one that you are comfortable with and that you can shoot.
(Any extra flame suits?)
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In between the 22 and 380 there's a nice little 32 auto made by Beretta (model 3032 Tomcat). Small, a little more punch that a 22, less than a 380. Nice weapon, easy to handle and conceal. I carry one on my ankle for a backup.
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OK, I will be the first to say it. Mouse guns are called mouse guns for a reason. Yes, they are better then nothing but barely. No, I do not want to get shot with a .22 or anything else. What matters is shot placement and penetration. One without the other is insufficient. There are plenty of documented cases where just showing a .22 will stop an attack but there are also plenty where the BG is shot with a .22 and he doesn't even know it. With the advancement of weapon technology what it is there are plenty of smaller 9mm handguns out there that a "tiny girl with a gun" can handle.
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You'd be surprised what you can handle. My wife shoots full-power 10mm like a champ, and carries .357 Magnum.
We would all hope that you had enough firepower for whatever you might encounter.
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A .22 is better than nothing. That being said, I wouldn't carry a .22 just because there are much better options. A well placed shot is good from any gun, but a poorly placed shot (under adrenaline) will cause more damage from a good self defense round. Unless you are defending yourself against squirrels I would get a 9mm on a semi-compact platform.
Really, a 9mm is not bad at all to handle and it is a great self-defense round.
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It's bad for someone else to tell you what you should carry. Best thing to do is to go to a gun store, with a firing range and try some out. They will let you shoot several if they want you to buy there. If you are going to Conceal Carry, make sure the gun is not too big or too heavy for you. Also try it in a holster that is recommended for concealed carry. You need to make sure it's comfortable, because you will be living with it everyday, if you're like most of us. If you are a newbie, I suggest you carry the gun in your C/C holster around the house while you wait for your permit, so that when you go out carrying you won't be concious or uncomfortable with it. People look at you funny if you are always tugging and adjusting on the gun that they are not suppose to know you have on you. Ya know?
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Thank you all! Sounds like a trip to Shooter's Choice is in order. I have had my gun for about a year and am comfortable with it at a range. Nothing will compare to the real thing, but it the target is a black circle within 50 feet and not moving then I'm fine! I'll take in these suggestions and see which gun fits me best. :)
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It's bad for someone else to tell you what you should carry.
It is not bad to make recommendations when they ask.
Should I look for something else? Is the .22 ok for cc? I am the "tiny girl with a gun" type person and don't think I could pull off anything big or heavy. Ideas?
The mouse gun controversy is surely not going to be resolved here. Suffice it to say that I do not believe that the small caliber handguns are adequate for personal protection.
Take a look at the attached PDF.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Regardless of caliber, the goal is to become so comfortable with the operation of your chosen carry gun that you can work it automatically, by muscle memory, in the dark (or injured, half asleep, cold, wet, etc.). You accomplish this by repetition: fire thousands of rounds through your weapon(s).
This is why those who like Glocks (as I do) tend to stick with them: I know I can fire, reload, clear, and otherwise handle any Glock competently under any conditions. I know it will work, and I know I can work it.
Comfort means a lot. We all pray for two things: that we never need our weapons, and that we handle them perfectly if we ever do.
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I think I have ready may Arm Citizen encounters where the person used a .22 to defend herself successfully. Most important what you can control and shoot comfortably.
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Ok, I'll throw in my 2 cents, for what they're worth....
I have to agree that a .22 cal is probably not a great solution for personal protection. I've shot squirrels with a .22 rifle where it took 15 seconds or so before the creature realized that it is was all over, so I'm not so sure a 2 legged-miscreant would react much better.
The 3 things that I think are paramount in a concealed carry firearm are: 1. concealed and comfortable. 2. a firearm, be it a semi-auto or revolver that is reliable, and 3. just enough gun to do the job. My personal preference is for revolvers simply because they are most familiar to me. I'm left a handed shooter, and more than one semi auto has thrown hot brass back in my face, chest or arms. I have nothing against the Glock fans; I think the Glock is a wonderful machine, I'm just not personally comfortable with one.
We are lucky today, as we do have a lot of good choices in concealable revolvers and small framed semi-autos in calibers that are up to the task. I look to history to see what works. Most LEOs carried .38 special and/or .357 mag revolvers up until the 80s. Then they moved to the 9mm in an auto, these calibers get the job done in a reasonable size and weight. Today these examples can be had from Taurus, S&W and others for reasonable prices in sizes that nearly anyone, even a small framed lady can easily carry. Ruger has the LC9 semi auto in 9mm which is also suitable and comfortable to shoot. Beyond all of this caliber stuff is the shooter - practice, practice, practice until every move is automatic and you feel totally comfortable with the firearm and yourself. Buy enough gun, but make sure it works for you and you work at learning it.
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G19. Enough said!
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I have a .22LR pistol. I keep getting the "a .22 won't stop anyone" lecture. As I am still waiting for my permit, I have time to try new guns before I get used to carrying this one. Should I look for something else? Is the .22 ok for cc? I am the "tiny girl with a gun" type person and don't think I could pull off anything big or heavy. Ideas?
Selecting a Caliber
Caliber selection in pistols is a hot source of debate amongst tactics-minded handgun users. While the general stopping power of a pistol is measurably low compared to almost any long gun, you want to make an informed choice to give you the best advantage.
Smaller calibers, such as .380, 9mm, etc, generally result in a higher bullet velocity, reduced recoil which allows for fast follow-up shots, higher capacity magazines (or smaller framed guns), and higher velocity bullets.
Large calibers, such as the venerable .45 feature slower bullets that have increased overall diameter, allowing for a wider initial wound channel (which gives you a slightly increased chance of hitting something vital). The heavier bullets and generally high muzzle energies increase recoil, resulting in slower follow-up shots and the larger diameter of the cartridges means lower capacity magazines.
The most crucial factor in determining what caliber you will choose is how accurate and comfortable you are with any particular caliber. Most U.S. self-defense experts consider .380 ACP (9 x 17 mm Browning Short) or 9mm as the minimum for adequate defense, while European Police believe that .32 ACP (7.65 x 17 mm Browning) as adequate. Making an informed decision about what caliber you will use requires experience. Shoot many different calibers and choose the biggest caliber that you can comfortably shoot and make fast, accurate followup shots with.
Don't completely disregard a .22 if your objective is home defense. A semi-automatic .22 pistol or Ruger 10/22 carbine with a high-capacity magazine is easy to control when shooting fast and can be very effective at close range (most home-defense shots occur at less than 7 yards), and .22 ammunition is very cheap. Furthermore, a .22 won't penetrate walls, thus reducing property damage and risk to your neighbors if you miss.
When making your decision, also keep in mind the cost of ammunition! You'll want to be able to easily afford enough ammunition to keep up a regular practice routine.
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However important the firearm caliber may be the actual function of the handgun is way more important. I recall attempting a mock handgun shoot with a new automatic and, not remembering that the decock was on, ended up racking 30 percent of my ammo before getting off one shot. A simple revolver would have been best for me in that situation.
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I have to say that if you're "big" enough to carry concealed, then the "tiny girl with a gun" mentality has to go. In my opinion (take that for what it's worth), you'd have a better chance of beating someone to death than killing them or doing major damage that would incapacitate them. You need to carry something that has a little more stopping power that you're also comfortable with -- not only in grips, but in shooting also.
Just my thoughts,
Moosie
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I have to say that if you're "big" enough to carry concealed, then the "tiny girl with a gun" mentality has to go. In my opinion (take that for what it's worth), you'd have a better chance of beating someone to death than killing them or doing major damage that would incapacitate them. You need to carry something that has a little more stopping power that you're also comfortable with -- not only in grips, but in shooting also.
Just my thoughts,
Moosie
Great Point, I should have said that.
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I appreciate all the input! I am waiting for a day without kids/work to go try out a few options. While I hope to never need to, I want to be prepared just in case. I know it's pointless to carry a gun if I can't get off more than one shot. So lots to figure out. :)
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Regardless of caliber, the goal is to become so comfortable with the operation of your chosen carry gun that you can work it automatically, by muscle memory, in the dark (or injured, half asleep, cold, wet, etc.). You accomplish this by repetition: fire thousands of rounds through your weapon(s)... Comfort means a lot. We all pray for two things: that we never need our weapons, and that we handle them perfectly if we ever do.
What oldgraygeek said. You should go to a range where you can rent or borrow guns. Try some of the light .380's like Kel-Tec P3-AT and Ruger LCP (I own both). Also try some of the small, lightweight J-frame .38 spl revolvers, like S&W's, especially the Airweights.
Each one handles and feels, and especially kicks, very differently, and you need to be comfortable with your choice. If you end up liking nothing bigger than a .22, don't worry. Lots of people get killed every year with a .22. Shot placement is everything. ;)
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G19. Enough said!
+1
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Ruger LCR. Light, small, reliable. And, unless you think you're going to be a full-blown firefight I think 5 rounds should be enough for almost any emergency.
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I personally feel people go towards the smaller calibers because of personal fear. These are people who don't do a lot of shooting or have never shot a gun and are afraid when the time comes they will not be able to handle the weapon of choice. Buying a gun is like buying a car. I know I would never buy a car with out test driving it first and the same goes for guns.
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Ruger LCR. Light, small, reliable. And, unless you think you're going to be a full-blown firefight I think 5 rounds should be enough for almost any emergency.
With respect. Of course we can't plan the magnitude of a bad situation because reality sticks its head in every time. We wouldn't be interested in concealed carry if something in our lives didn't give us a very good reason. I would hope for a company of weapons when the SHTF, all maximum power, all rapid fire. Stopping the threat isn't everything, its the only thing. (kinda stolen line there).
I need to add this: My personal introspection calls for 100% control of a threatening situation. Less than 100% leaves significant doubt as to how to respond to any threat. So I must conclude that whatever firearm I choose, I must commit to training and focus. I will spare no expense to become 100% sure before I make an irreversible decision that could send someone to the undertaker and me to the big house.
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Today's criminals are often in small groups, not just a single bad guy. Five shots is not enough.
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Today's criminals are often in small groups, not just a single bad guy. Five shots is not enough.
I personally hope and pray that zero shots will be enough.
However, I carry a Glock 29 and a spare mag, with 21 rounds of full-power 10mm.
In a week or so, I'll finish my center console mods, and I'll keep my Glock 20 and two 15-round spares in there, adding up to 46 more rounds... and the larger mags fit into the G29.
What can I say: I'm a pessimist.
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Old Gray, expect the worst, but hope for the best.
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After reading the paper, and watching the news, I'm starting to think that leaving the house with anything less than a .308 and a half-dozen 20-rounders may be foolish.
That's for gettin' 'em before they get outta the car, or when they're hidin' behind a wall!
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Regardless of what one carries, practice. Five shots well placed on five BGs will do better than 28 shots missed + two poorly placed shots - practice, practice, practice, then practice some more....
Today's criminals are often in small groups, not just a single bad guy. Five shots is not enough.
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This vid says it all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OHXzX8T5ew
Arguments about 9mm vs 45 make me laugh as well. Ask yourself this, have you ever seen what a 9mm round does to the human body? I guarantee you that upon impact at approx 1000fps, the threat will not shrug it off and say you should have used something bigger. Don't believe me, ask an ER surgeon or 18D who has done live goat labs.
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Here is another. Right through a baseball in slow motion. That is enough to drop a threat. Period.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOB8mp_cmgs&feature=related
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Don't forget to use hollow point ammo for personal protection. Using the round point FMJ ammo that is designed for range targets is more likely to go through a attacker and not stop them. Where a hollow point will fragment and do major damage. Just a word to the newbies.
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Arguments about 9mm vs 45 make me laugh as well. Ask yourself this, have you ever seen what a 9mm round does to the human body? I guarantee you that upon impact at approx 1000fps, ...
Box of Fed HydroShok states 1060 @ muzzle. Box of Win PDX1 920 @ muzzle. So, lets take the slow one @ 920 and double the mass, I'll take the 45 thank you. The larger hole in the BG is a bonus!
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Maybe some of you saw this article in the American Rifleman...Handgun Stopping Power: Sizing Up your Options
The author fired 100 handgun loads into ballistic gelatin, measuring velocity, penetration and expansion for each.
http://www.americanrifleman.org/m-articlepage.aspx?id=4546&cid=19 (http://www.americanrifleman.org/m-articlepage.aspx?id=4546&cid=19)
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Great article.