Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
CCW Methods & Issues => General CCW Discussion => Topic started by: F16WarBird on July 19, 2011, 07:10:27 PM
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I was just curious. Do you carry with a round chambered or not?
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is there any other way to carry? why would yo want to carry a unloaded gun
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You'll find on the larger forums this comes up and gets debated about twice a day... Sometimes it gets downright ugly...
The bottom line is, you'll just have to do what you're comfortable with... If you aren't comfortable carrying chambered, then don't...
As for me personally, I ALWAYS carry with one in the pipe... With good equipment it isn't a safety issue in my opinion. There are plenty that will argue that the small amount of time it takes to chamber a round won't affect the outcome of a "situation", but for me I feel like ANY advantage is going to be that much better. Not only is it one less thing I have to do, but I also don't have to worry about oddball situations where it might be made difficult... For example, I remember one thread on another forum recently where one guy who constantly argued that one could ALWAYS get a round chambered and should never carry with one already chambered actually changed his mind after a trip to the range on a hot day where he discovered the sweat on his hands made it almost impossible to get a good grip on the slide to rack.
Again, I personally just can't justify carrying WITHOUT a round chambered, but to each their own... If it makes someone else comfortable to carry unchambered, then so be it. It's no skin of my back... ;)
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Round in the chamber yes, but hammer down (not cocked). My Sig has no external safety, but plenty of internal ones (firing pin).
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Because I dont' carry it on my body, its not.
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Pistol - Cocked, locked, full magazine in, chambered
Rifle - Cocked, locked, full magazine in, unchambered
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Yup, I always carry in condition 1.
Moosie
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Always.
I also won't carry a firearm with an external "safety." I either have a Glock or a revolver, or both. The worst thing to hear right before I die would be a faint click from a firearm with the "safety" on.
(The reason I put quotes around the word "safety" is simple: the only time a firearm is remotely "safe" is when I can see its empty chamber, so what good is a "safety" when the gun is loaded)?
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Always.
I also won't carry a firearm with an external "safety." I either have a Glock or a revolver, or both. The worst thing to hear right before I die would be a faint click from a firearm with the "safety" on
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That is where practice comes into play.
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True, practice is key, but I keep my booger hook away from the bang switch, so I don't see the need for something that "protects" me from not doing that.
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The purpose of the thumb safety on certain guns, 1911 for example, is to prevent hammer falling without intentionally pulling the trigger - I.e. banging the gun against the way, reholstering, .... , these guns generally have a lighter trigger pull.
I personally wouldn't carry a revolver unless I had absolutely no other choice. A malfunction with a revolver there is no way to "fix it" whithout taking off service, a semiauto gives you the chance to clear the malfunction.
I guess the bottom line is to carry the gun you feel comfortable, practice with, and trust it will go bang. Regardless of the gun, it is suggested that a handgun should be carried with a round on the chamber, and I think most of us agree with that.
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Booger hook and bang switch......lmao. I keep a round in the chamber also or I have my jframe with me.
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Watch this sad incident where the jewelry store owner is trying to chamber a round during a robbery - http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=086_1260862712
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Regardless of the gun, it is suggested that a handgun should be carried with a round on the chamber, and I think most of us agree with that.
You'd think... but it's amazing how many people on the national forums absolutely insist that carrying a round chambered is "brilliant". >:(
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We're ordered to keep our weapons in Amber status (loaded mag, empty chamber) inside the wire over here. I have every confidence that I can quickly draw, rack, and accurately put rounds on center mass. But when I get home, I won't be carrying my weapon in a SERPA drop holster with extra mags on a web belt. :D
In the event that I'm forced to draw my weapon, I don't want to worry about fumbling with the slide, nor do I want to give the target an audible warning (robbery scenerio). I'm no hero, but I don't plan on being someone's victim.
That was why I asked such a n00b question.
Thanks for all of the replies.
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The only time i carried a M9 without a round in the chamber was in Katrina, and that was only because i was attached to a army MP company. I think its in an AFI somewhere to carry it with a round in the chamber on fire. Unless your issued a M4/m16 or a GUU then you only chamber a round when your confronted with a threat.
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Watch this sad incident where the jewelry store owner is trying to chamber a round during a robbery - http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=086_1260862712
wow... never seen that video before :-\
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always conditon 1, and a spare mag
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I haven't checked out any of the national forums, but this topic is something I've been thinking a lot about so the discussion is insightful.
Has anyone used Condition 3 at first (first month or so of actually carrying) until gathering a comfort level for Condition 1? I know many of you are Military or former LE, so you guys have a natural comfort level with weapons, but for a suit like me that has had a great deal of experience with weapons at the range, but not on my person, I look for advice on how I should first proceed if/when the permit arrives in my mailbox.
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When I was waiting for my permit to arrive, I carried around the house in condition 3 to get used to the weight and feel of carrying. I would often unholster and reholster to be sure of trigger finger placement and safety. Ive always considered myself very safe but until I began carrying all of my expierence with loaded guns was at the range( its much easier to be lax when you know your gonna fire right away). By the time the golden ticket arrived I switched to condition 1 and havent looked back.
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I haven't checked out any of the national forums, but this topic is something I've been thinking a lot about so the discussion is insightful.
Has anyone used Condition 3 at first (first month or so of actually carrying) until gathering a comfort level for Condition 1? I know many of you are Military or former LE, so you guys have a natural comfort level with weapons, but for a suit like me that has had a great deal of experience with weapons at the range, but not on my person, I look for advice on how I should first proceed if/when the permit arrives in my mailbox.
I have always carried pistols in "Condition1." The only weapon I leave in "Condition3" (Cruiser Ready) is a rifle.
Note these conditions were created to classify condition of readiness for 1911s, it doesn't apply to many pistols unless it has a hammer to be cocked, thumbsafety, loaded from a magazine.
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I haven't checked out any of the national forums, but this topic is something I've been thinking a lot about so the discussion is insightful.
Has anyone used Condition 3 at first (first month or so of actually carrying) until gathering a comfort level for Condition 1? I know many of you are Military or former LE, so you guys have a natural comfort level with weapons, but for a suit like me that has had a great deal of experience with weapons at the range, but not on my person, I look for advice on how I should first proceed if/when the permit arrives in my mailbox.
I think a lot of getting comfortable has to do with understanding the mechanics behind everything. It's kinda hard to explain, but here's a quick example. Since I typically purchase ammo in bulk and larger orders I always keep a bunch of 50 cal ammo cans laying around to store them in. Some of the packing that I've purchased are just downright ridiculous... So I always unbox/unpackage all ammo and keep it stored in these cans. One day a buddy of mine was over and I happened to be sitting on the couch unboxing 2000 rounds of xm193 and tossing them in the can beside me. He gave me a quick "are you serious?"?!? look and then asked, ""are you serious?"?!?" LOL... "What if one goes off!!!"
He had no idea how much force a strike to a primer really takes. Believe it or not, it really does take a pretty darn good whack to get that thing to go off. What I was doing was perfectly safe, but he was freaked out by simple misunderstanding.
The point is, if you truly study the mechanics of your firearm... Go over it with a fine comb and truly understand the workings and functioning of every minute detail, especially all the various levels of safety and how they work (internal safeties, not necessarily external safety) then you'll become VERY confident of one simple fact... Unless you own one seriously crapping POS weapon, UNLESS you pull the trigger, it's not gonna go bang! Pistols don't just magically decide to shoot themselves... Even dropping a pistol (a good one) isn't going to make it go off (unless some rare fluke would snag the trigger on something just right on the way down). Just hitting the ground isn't going to make it go off. (again assuming a GOOD SAFE firearm).
Once you understand that it doesn't go bang UNLESS you pull the trigger, then it becomes very clear that as LONG as the trigger is protected (as it is in every proper fitting holster I've seen), it's not going to go bang while it's in the holster.
The ONLY! time I EVER! consider it a possibility that my pistol could go off "accidentally" would be when inserting it or removing it from the holster, NOT while it's in the holster.
With all that said, I did the same thing as GunEnvy above, carrying around the house before I actually got the permit in the mail. Just to get used to the idea of carrying... (as well as a little test I did to see if my wife would notice, and she didn't!) The only difference is, I carried it with one in the pipe. Again, I think it's just a comfort thing... Once you understand the mechanics enough or have been around and used firearms enough to understand how they and the various safety mechanisms work, you come to realize that when a firearm discharges accidentally, it's through stupidity... That's not to say it can't happen to anyone, as it certainly can... But rest well assured if it does happen to you or me, it'll be through shear stupidity, not through any malfunction of the firearm itself. At least in my opinion!
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Once you understand that it doesn't go bang UNLESS you pull the trigger, then it becomes very clear that as LONG as the trigger is protected (as it is in every proper fitting holster I've seen), it's not going to go bang while it's in the holster.
The ONLY! time I EVER! consider it a possibility that my pistol could go off "accidentally" would be when inserting it or removing it from the holster, NOT while it's in the holster.
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Some weapons can also discharge if dropped muzzle down, so as rusirius said understand your weapon and make sure you handle them appropriately.
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Some weapons can also discharge if dropped muzzle down, so as rusirius said understand your weapon and make sure you handle them appropriately.
Yeah, I suppose I should have said "GOOD, SAFE and MODERN" firearm... ;) I'd say it's a good bet that anything 90s or after (maybe even 80s) is going to have an FP block, transfer bar or heavy enough FP spring that it won't. ;)
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Some weapons can also discharge if dropped muzzle down, so as rusirius said understand your weapon and make sure you handle them appropriately.
Yeah, I suppose I should have said "GOOD, SAFE and MODERN" firearm... ;) I'd say it's a good bet that anything 90s or after (maybe even 80s) is going to have an FP block, transfer bar or heavy enough FP spring that it won't. ;)
Not really. The best "modern" (combat ready) 1911s are series 70 - meaning without FPB. The FBI contracts their 1911s from SA which are also series 70. Also, don't forget ARs don't have FPB or fire pin springs. These 1911s usually have titanium FP or 9mm FP with heavy spring - great, safe, modern ;)
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It all comes down to personal choice. Carry how you are comfortable with it and nobody can say you are wrong, they can only say why they prefer how they carry. I watched the video of the guy trying to chamber a round as he was getting robbed and it looks pretty scary. They say you loose your fine motor skills when under extreme stress. The only cure for that is proper and proficient training. Here is a different video of someone who is obviously well trained and kept "one in the pipe."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeGD7r6s-zU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeGD7r6s-zU)
Or try this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paxk_LPmdMI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paxk_LPmdMI)
I try to balance my concern for an accidental discharge and whether or not I feel I can draw and chamber a round under stressful conditions. I choose not to carry a round in the chamber.
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Not really. The best "modern" (combat ready) 1911s are series 70 - meaning without FPB. The FBI contracts their 1911s from SA which are also series 70. Also, don't forget ARs don't have FPB or fire pin springs. These 1911s usually have titanium FP or 9mm FP with heavy spring - great, safe, modern ;)
Well yeah, but I think the qualifier of "modern" throws out the colt's. ;D Actually I did say anything "90s" or after... ;) Actually though, didn't the series 70 still have a spring?
And as for the AR's, that's very true, but I wasn't really referencing any rifles/shotguns in the mix since we were talking about relative safety of carrying concealed.
You know... In all honesty I know it DOES and CAN happen, but I wonder what the odds REALLY are of getting an inertial primer strike that actually detonates the primer? I gotta imagine even in an unprotected firearm like an AR that the odds are still pretty slim...
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Well yeah, but I think the qualifier of "modern" throws out the colt's. ;D Actually I did say anything "90s" or after... ;) Actually though, didn't the series 70 still have a spring?
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The majority of the Colts today are series 80 (with FPB), exceptions to the repro series. If you look at makers like Wilson, Les Baer, Ed Brown, SA, Dan Wesson... all their guns are series 70, they are all excellent guns tunned for combat. Even Kimber is coming back now to their series I style, removing the Schwartz safety.
They always had the firing pin spring, the drop still can overcome the inertia and fire a round if the pistol is dropped muzzle down.
The idea here is understand the gun, check to make sure your springs are in good shape and that you have the correct FP spring combination.
The ARs (rifles in general) are very prone, nothing between the firing pin and the primer.
Here is a drop test:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92828#Post92828
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This subject has always been a concern for me, since I started carrying. I started with a Ruger LCR (DAO) in a pocket holster and I felt very comfortable with it because it was DAO.
I've since upgraded to a Taurus PT 740 carried again in a pocket holster. The reason I chose the PT 740 is because it's DA/SA and it's possible to carry a round in the chamber in DA mode with the safety on (optional). I'd feel very uncomfortable with a cocked pistol in my pocket. But the DA let's me fire the first round quickly. Oh, the PT 740 also has a firing pin block along with the external safety.
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The majority of the Colts today are series 80 (with FPB), exceptions to the repro series. If you look at makers like Wilson, Les Baer, Ed Brown, SA, Dan Wesson... all their guns are series 70, they are all excellent guns tunned for combat. Even Kimber is coming back now to their series I style, removing the Schwartz safety.
They always had the firing pin spring, the drop still can overcome the inertia and fire a round if the pistol is dropped muzzle down.
The idea here is understand the gun, check to make sure your springs are in good shape and that you have the correct FP spring combination.
The ARs (rifles in general) are very prone, nothing between the firing pin and the primer.
Here is a drop test:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92828#Post92828
Thanks for the link! That's really interesting... One thing to note (for the original point though) is that from 3 ft it wouldn't fire... From 4 ft it took a steel .45 FP to do so and even then only when hitting concrete. The point being, when talking about the original application (i.e. is there a danger of accidental discharge when carrying condition 1) it's my opinion that this chart actually shows that the risk is practically non-existent. Assuming the pistol stays in it's holster it's definitely a non-issue. If it were to drop accidentally out of the holster, unless you're the green giant it's going to be from under 4 ft. Even at 4 ft, the combination of the probability of it dropping (especially while standing) combined with the probability of it hitting concrete combined with the probability of it hitting the muzzle perfectly all add up to some pretty rare odds and again in my opinion make it almost if not entirely a non-issue.
You obviously know far more about the 1911's than I do, so it's really not fair of me to say how likely or how unlikely (and therefore how much of a safety risk) it is, but you yourself carry a 1911 in condition 1, so obviously you've determined the risk to be of little or no consequence as well. Or at least moot enough to not persuade you to carry any other way.
One thing that IS worth pointing out, and this goes for ANY weapon... If you drop it, LET IT FRIGGING GO!!! Don't try to catch the @@@@ thing... When we catch dropping things we tend to spread our fingers out and try to get them "stuck" in any where they can... In the case of a handgun, that means inside the trigger guard, and usually ends up with squeezing the trigger!
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Thanks for the link! That's really interesting... One thing to note (for the original point though) is that from 3 ft it wouldn't fire... From 4 ft it took a steel .45 FP to do so and even then only when hitting concrete. The point being, when talking about the original application (i.e. is there a danger of accidental discharge when carrying condition 1) it's my opinion that this chart actually shows that the risk is practically non-existent. Assuming the pistol stays in it's holster it's definitely a non-issue. If it were to drop accidentally out of the holster, unless you're the green giant it's going to be from under 4 ft. Even at 4 ft, the combination of the probability of it dropping (especially while standing) combined with the probability of it hitting concrete combined with the probability of it hitting the muzzle perfectly all add up to some pretty rare odds and again in my opinion make it almost if not entirely a non-issue.
Excellent observation. And that is the reason I have no problems carrying a good 1911 series 70 in Condition1, 9mm FP and extra strong Wolf springs. I find the tradeoff of carrying a gun I am confortable and practice with outweights the almost non-existent risk of having a AD for dropping the gun.
One thing that IS worth pointing out, and this goes for ANY weapon... If you drop it, LET IT FRIGGING GO!!! Don't try to catch the @@@@ thing... When we catch dropping things we tend to spread our fingers out and try to get them "stuck" in any where they can... In the case of a handgun, that means inside the trigger guard, and usually ends up with squeezing the trigger!
Another excellent observation, never ever try to catch the pistol in the air.