Author Topic: Guns and Children...  (Read 3987 times)

rusirius

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Guns and Children...
« on: June 26, 2011, 03:23:09 AM »
One of the things I get asked about occasional by friends is how we handle having guns in the house with our almost 4 year old child.  I just figured I'd share what our family does in the hopes that it might help others who have this same question for themselves.

How I handle this is exactly the way that my parents raised me with guns.  A way that taught me a healthy respect for firearms and kept me from ever getting into any trouble with them.

First the basics, which are kind of obvious...  We only keep one firearm in the home loaded and ready to go.  That one is stored in a quick access safe (a pistol).  The rest are stored unloaded, with some type of lock (generally cable locks through the action).  The ammo is also stored in a locked chest.

This is kinda obvious... Keep the child or children from having access to the firearms...  But that's not good enough... It's not good enough because it doesn't guarantee that he'll never have access to a firearm.  Nobody is perfect.  Perhaps I don't push the door closed on the safe all the way, or perhaps in a complete lack of judgment with a million things on my mind I return from a day of shooting and leave a firearm out unsecured.  For that matter, he might come across an unsecured firearm in someone else's home, or a tossed gun out in the front yard for all I know.

So securing your own firearms isn't enough... Children MUST be taught what to do if they encounter a firearm...

That's where the NRA rules come in.  From the moment he was talking and able to comprehend such things (I'd say he was about 2 when we started drilling it into him) we taught him.  To this day, if you ask him "What do you do if you see a gun?" He will quickly shout out, "Umm STOP! Don't touch it. Back away from it and go tell a big person."  I don't know if these were really available when I was growing up, so for me, my parents taught me that any time you see a gun you DON'T TOUCH IT!  That was that...

We even do "drills" occasionally where after checking it about 50 times I'll leave a firearm in a place where I know he'll see it within a few moments... Then wait and watch his reaction...  In every case he does exactly what he's supposed to do.  And he get's VERY well rewarded for doing so.

Now, that all seems to work very well, and sounds great in theory...  But children are very curious by nature.  Their incredible ability to pick up and learn things at an astonishing rate is mostly due to this curiosity.  That's why the next step, while some would see as controversial, I feel it's an absolute must for any home containing both firearms and children.

If you tell a teenager they absolutely under no circumstances are to have "evil sex", if you make a huge deal out of it and treat it like it's absolute taboo, then chances are they are going to seek it out.  Their curiosity will eventually overwhelm them and they're going to have sex. 

Firearms to small children are no different.  If you stress how dangerous they are and that they are absolutely under no circumstances EVER to touch them, you are wrapping them in a big layer of mystery... A mystery that the child will eventually want to unfold.

I think my son was a little over 3 the first time he saw me cleaning a rifle when he asked the question...  "Can I touch it?"

Most parents would probably respond with, "No!  Absolutely Not!  You are NEVER to touch a gun!"

I responded the way my father responded the first time I ever asked him the same question.

"Yes you may, but because guns are so dangerous we have to be very careful and make sure we do it the proper way."

I then picked up the rifle and asked him to follow me.  We went to the living room and faced the wall.  I explained to him again how dangerous guns were and that even though we were being very careful we had to make sure that it was ALWAYS pointed in a safe direction.  I explained that the wall would not stop a bullet and that we were facing that wall because looking through the window on the other side there was nothing else that a bullet would hit.  I then locked the action open and explained to him where the bullet would be if it was loaded.  We made sure there was no magazine in it, and I let him see and feel with his own hands while making sure to always keep the muzzle pointed at the wall in a "safe direction".  I showed him the breech and let him check that there was no bullet in there.  I let him stick his finger in the breech to double check that there was nothing in it.  Then finally I showed him the trigger.  I explained that the trigger was NEVER to be touched unless you were actually shooting the gun at a SAFE target, and that unless we were at the range, there was never a safe target, so we would never touch the trigger.

I then let him stand in front of me and hold the rifle.  Being sure to guide his trigger finger above the guard where it belonged.  Then I just let him hold it.  I explained to him that he could hold it as long as he wanted, but that he ALWAYS had to keep the muzzle pointed at that wall because that was the only safe direction.  I told him that as soon as he was done holding it to let me know and I would take it back from him.

After about 10 seconds he was done.

I then told him that ANY time he EVER wanted to hold a gun, all he had to do was ask mommy or daddy and we would let him, but that every time we would have to do it the same way, to make sure it was done safely.

For the first couple days he would occasionally run up and ask if he could hold a gun.  And I'd immediately tell him Yes and go through the same procedure.

He would hold it a few seconds and then tell me he was done.

After that he was pretty much over it.  Once in a great while if I'm cleaning one or doing something and he sees one, he MIGHT ask to hold it.  Usually he doesn't, but occasionally he does. And each time I let him do exactly that.

You see, now there is no mystique about guns.  There is nothing special about them other than being very dangerous and having to be treated in a very special way.  They aren't some taboo thing to be curious about.  They are simply guns.

He has no reason now to "wonder" what it's like to have one in his hands.  Frankly, guns are boring, and that's exactly how he should feel about them.  They must be respected because of the danger they present, but there is nothing taboo about them. 

I have no doubt that IF he ever sees a firearm "in the wild" or even one in our own home that I have stupidly left out, he will not touch it.  I also have no doubt that IF he DOES want to touch it, he won't do it on his own, he'll simply come ask mommy or daddy because he knows he won't be told no.

Some would say I was crazy for letting a 3 year old hold a rifle, or later a pistol (as I have on many occasions since).  I personally think they are crazy for not allowing their child to do the same.

My own parents never had gun safes.  Guns were simply stored in their bedroom.  I distinctly remember many times winding up in their bedroom alone.  Not once did I ever think about touching one of those guns.  I had no interest to, I had done it many times and knew that if I wanted to all I had to do was ask.

I also remember my very first firearm.  A Marlin .22 rifle that my dad bought me.  I think I was 8 years old at the time.  I had a healthy respect for that rifle at the time.  I treated it no different from the way I treat firearms to this very day.  That rifle was stored in my bedroom hanging on the wall.  (They did however keep the ammo in their bedroom, not that I would have ever thought about loading it).  Despite it being in my own room where I spent hours a day playing, I never once touched that rifle without first asking my father if we could go target shooting.

I don't know what age my son will be when he asks me if he can go to the range and shoot with me.  But when he does I'll have absolutely no qualms about taking him and letting him.  And while I would never allow him at the age of 8 to have a firearm of his own that was kept in his room, it wouldn't be for fear that HE would touch it, but rather for fear that one of his friends who came over who didn't have the proper training might.

muleman88

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Re: Guns and Children...
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2011, 11:37:08 AM »
Very good post! I have read some books about this same subject and you have the same way of teaching. I have three children 9,7,and 1 , I ask my 9 and7 yr old to make list of things they want me to do with them during summer vacation. One of the things was to shoot their 22 three days a week ;D . I have to admit its hard to take them everytime they want to shoot their gun (due to work that needs to be done) but I want them to know if they ask me I will do it so they dont feel the urge to " sneak".  Although their guns are in a safe.

tz9x21

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Re: Guns and Children...
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2011, 01:02:18 AM »
Absolutely correct rusirius.
I handled my kids the exact same way and one moment will always stick in my mind. (I started both of my sons shooting at age 4)

Some of my son's friends were at our house playing. I was in my "gun room" cleaning some guns and as they walked past the door and saw me, one of his friends said "...is that a real gun?" My 12 yo son said "...yes, but we can't touch them unless we ask first."
I was very proud of my son as I knew what I taught him had stuck with him.

Now my sons are 29 and 27 and they still ask permission to go into the "gun room" and safe to get their guns. (They prefer to keep most of their guns at my house because they don't have safes of their own)

I'm now teaching my 2 step-grandsons (Ages 9 and 12) in the exact same way and will do the same with my new grand-daughters.
"... so my wife says, don't you have enough guns?" to which I reply, "My dear, there is no such thing as enough guns."

rusirius

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Re: Guns and Children...
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2011, 12:54:27 AM »
My 12 yo son said "...yes, but we can't touch them unless we ask first."
I was very proud of my son as I knew what I taught him had stuck with him.

The only moment even better than teaching your child something and watching them learn and accomplish things, is watching them learn something that could potentially save their life one day.  No finer moment as a parent...

Oddly enough after writing this it wasn't too much longer till my son asked "the question"... We were at a friends house and he was inside playing with one of his second-cousins while we were outside shooting.  My wife let him out during a cease fire because he had something very important to ask me.  He comes over and whispers in my ear, "Daddy, can I shoot your gun?".

I kinda felt bad for the kid, because there were only three guns there.  My 9mm M&P which I didn't feel safe about him trying to shoot, my RA XCR in 5.56 and a Remmy 700 in .30-06.  In fact, I didn't even own a rifle in anything that wasn't centerfire (Except my muzzle loaders).  So I explained that daddy didn't have anything he could shoot safely, but that we would buy something that he would be able to shoot next time we went out...

A few days later I stopped after work and picked up a Remmy 597.  I'll be the first to admit, while I picked it up to have something I could sit with him and let him squeeze the trigger a few times, the truth is, I've quickly fallen in love with this thing!  Out of the box it was EXCELLENT...  My only complaint was the trigger, which was very heavy and had a lot of travel...  After a stint with a drill, a couple of set screws, a dremel, and a stone, I polished up the trigger surfaces, stoned the hammer down a bit, installed a limiting screw to stop the trigger as soon as it breaks, and last but not least, was able to convert it to an adjustable trigger weight.  I can now change it anywhere from a ridiculous 8lbs or so, down to just BARELY 1lb... I can actually go lower, but around 3/4lb it starts not catching the hammer reliably when cycling.  The thing is an absolute treat now!  Shoots 3/4" groups at 50 yards with crappy Blazer bulk, with many groups hitting inside 1/2". 

It was a PERFECT buy... with a little work (no extra money unless you count 44 cents in 2 set screws) it's now something that he can shoot and enjoy, but more importantly daddy can have a BALL with! ;)

muleman88

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Re: Guns and Children...
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2011, 01:00:37 AM »
Sounds like dang good work rusirius . Do you do that kinda work or just a hobby?

rusirius

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Re: Guns and Children...
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2011, 12:22:55 PM »
Sounds like dang good work rusirius . Do you do that kinda work or just a hobby?

Just a hobby... I'm an I.T. guy by trade... LOL...  I got the idea from another rifle I had seen a while back... Don't even remember what it was, but I remember it having an adjustable trigger out of the box, which I thought was pretty cool... This one was so heavy to begin with, that even after stoning the hammer and polishing it was still way heavier than I wanted it... I was going to pull the sear spring and see if I could find something lighter to replace it with when I remembered that adjustable trigger... After a quick google search to try to see how I might go about doing that, I found a post on another forum that mentioned doing it to the exact rifle I was working on (the 597).  I modified the way they did it slightly, but essentially it's the same principle...  There's now a set screw under the sear spring.  By turning this in you're putting more tension on the spring, and therefore making the trigger pull heavier... By turning it out, you're taking tension off and making it lighter... Just can't go too light (below 1lb or so) or else it won't reliably catch the hammer...

muleman88

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Re: Guns and Children...
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2011, 08:25:32 PM »
Thats cool you can do that. I wish I was able to do some gunsmithing. Its hard to find someone when you need some work done. I usually have to be put on a LONG list when I find myself needing a gunsmith.

rusirius

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Re: Guns and Children...
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2011, 12:45:16 AM »
Thats cool you can do that. I wish I was able to do some gunsmithing. Its hard to find someone when you need some work done. I usually have to be put on a LONG list when I find myself needing a gunsmith.

Honestly anyone can do it... I remember the first time I ever polished a trigger I was scared to death I was gonna ruin the thing...  Then I realized, how much does a spare part really cost?  It's not like the gun is ruined... It's just a part... So I got a little more brave... A little common sense goes a long way... When working on things like hammers and sears one of the most critical things is the angle it engages at.  As long as you don't change that angle, you'd be amazed at how much you can take off... Again just some common sense and realistically knowing when enough is enough...  Stuff like that is pretty simple... It's only when you start talking about headspacing and things that I wouldn't be to inclined to mess around... ;) 

Even a basic polishing... You'd be AMAZED at how much of a difference just pulling the parts of the trigger group out and using a polishing wheel in a dremal can do.  It's little things like that they don't do at the factory because of extra expense, yet it's easy for the average person to take a little time and make a huge improvement...