Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
CCW Methods & Issues => General CCW Discussion => Topic started by: Steveo on June 17, 2016, 07:18:24 PM
-
Live in DE (permit) work in PA(permit) as a contractor supervisor I need to go to job sites in the 2 commie boarder states. Is there a legal way I can store gun and ammo seperately in my vehicle. I would put gun in lock box and all ammo in another part of vehicle, probably lock it also. Is there a way to do this legally ???
-
Get a ccw permit in PRNJ and MD- would be the only legal way. good luck with that.
-
No way to do it legally.
If you are passing through either state, having it unloaded & locked up renders it legal under Federal law. Once you stop the car, even just to use the rest room, either state (especially NJ) might lock you up on felony charges. If you are going into the state, stopping to work, and then returning to Delaware, you would almost certainly be prosecuted if you were stopped.
Remember, also, that possession of hollow-point ammo is a separate crime in NJ...
-
@OGG: I agree with your analysis/advice, but be aware that back in April NJ's attorney general issued a memo clarifying (sort of) temporary stops while traveling through the state with firearms. Bathroom-stops might be ok (depending on facts).
See my earlier post for a link to the memo. http://deccw.com/index.php?topic=4531.msg32176#msg32176 (http://deccw.com/index.php?topic=4531.msg32176#msg32176)
-
@OGG: I agree with your analysis/advice, but be aware that back in April NJ's attorney general issued a memo clarifying (sort of) temporary stops while traveling through the state with firearms. Bathroom-stops might be ok (depending on facts).
See my earlier post for a link to the memo. http://deccw.com/index.php?topic=4531.msg32176#msg32176 (http://deccw.com/index.php?topic=4531.msg32176#msg32176)
I saw it, but I don't trust an NJ cop to follow that memo... getting arrested on felony gun charges would still be a disaster, even if they decide to prosecute later.
-
Thanks for advice, looks like I will be leaving my gun at home during work because I can be called to cross the border at any time :(
-
I work in Jersey 3 days a week. I feel your pain. :'(
-
I saw it, but I don't trust an NJ cop to follow that memo... getting arrested on felony gun charges would still be a disaster, even if they decide to prosecute later.
Completely agreed. Avoiding a charge is always better (and cheaper) than beating it!
-
I work in MD, and have friends there as well. Every time I cross the border into Commie land, I leave my firearm at home. :(
-
I am not sure I fully understand what @OGG is saying about traveling to "commie" states like MD, NJ? Basically the jist is you can only travel THROUGH those states with your firearm / ammo locked up separately and cannot stop at all?
If that is the case what about if you were going to a gun range in either of those two states...technically your stopping and not "passing through"?
-
Besides it being legal to transport weapons through MD, you can carry to a range or gunsmith if you go directly there and abide by the rules about keeping guns unloaded and separate from ammo under lock and key.
-
The not stopping at all is a little harsh. Actually courts have ruled that to be protected under the federal law, the stop my be "incidental to travel". Stopping for gas or to eat and leaving the gun in the car would be ok, but going to a range is not. Maryland does permit this but it New Jersey apparently does not.
The gray area is staying overnight. The only test case I know of involved a diverted flight into Newark Airport. The diverted traveler stayed overnight in a hotel. He collected his baggage which included a gun that he was supposed to land in Pennsylvania with. When he went to check his bags the next day he was arrested and jailed. The court ruled that he was not protected as the law only applied to vehicle carry. The cops and the judge didn't care that he was diverted to New Jersey. They treated him like a common criminal. I'm sure they were proud of themselves.
-
I was raised in commie land (MD.) I have lots of friends and relatives there. I seldom go back there as I don't want to go where I can't carry. I have been there twice in the last year or so. once to a banquet, and once to a Shorebirds game. Have nothing on my calender for the rest of the year as far as MD. If they want to see me they can come here. I haven't moved in 28 years.
-
Hollow points are not illegal in NJ, it is additional time added to your sentence for using hollow points in the commission of a crime.
-
Hollow points are not illegal in NJ, it is additional time added to your sentence for using hollow points in the commission of a crime.
That's correct that they are not illegal per se, but they are regulated quite a bit.
I found this info straight from the NJ state police site:
http://www.njsp.org/firearms/index.shtml (http://www.njsp.org/firearms/index.shtml)
There is info at that link on transporting guns into and through NJ as well as info on hollow point ammo.
-
Hollow points are not illegal in NJ, it is additional time added to your sentence for using hollow points in the commission of a crime.
That's correct that they are not illegal per se, but they are regulated quite a bit.
I found this info straight from the NJ state police site:
http://www.njsp.org/firearms/index.shtml (http://www.njsp.org/firearms/index.shtml)
There is info at that link on transporting guns into and through NJ as well as info on hollow point ammo.
I don't see how most of us could enter or transit NJ legally with hollow point ammo.
Hollow points are legal for sportsmen for use with a gun legal for hunting.
Activities contained in N.J.S.A 26:39-6f. can be broken down as follows:
A member of a rifle or pistol club organized under rules of the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and which filed its charter with the State Police;
A person engaged in hunting or target practice with a firearm legal for hunting in this State;
A person going directly to a target range, and;
A person going directly to an authorized place for "practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions."
-
Hollow points are not illegal in NJ, it is additional time added to your sentence for using hollow points in the commission of a crime.
This can be tricky. I know a person that was charged going to a stop in NJ for having a gun locked in the back of their van. They had HP ammo (locked up too) which they were charged with additionally. The NJ reasoning was.. you committed a crime by having the gun there illegally, therefore the HP ammo is associated with said crime.
-
Hollow points are not illegal in NJ, it is additional time added to your sentence for using hollow points in the commission of a crime.
This can be tricky. I know a person that was charged going to a stop in NJ for having a gun locked in the back of their van. They had HP ammo (locked up too) which they were charged with additionally. The NJ reasoning was.. you committed a crime by having the gun there illegally, therefore the HP ammo is associated with said crime.
appears that NJ 'justice' ignores the 8th Amendment
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
-
my comment would be, why would you lock it up in a separate box that will look suspicious which would give the police a reason to search your vehicle. through from my understanding they can not do without your permission or without a warrant and can not take you and your car in to be searched without placing you under arrest and they need a reason to do that
-
my comment would be, why would you lock it up in a separate box that will look suspicious which would give the police a reason to search your vehicle. through from my understanding they can not do without your permission or without a warrant and can not take you and your car in to be searched without placing you under arrest and they need a reason to do that
The police can -- and do -- search any car they want, legally or not, and get away with it. Been there, seen it happen.
-
i know i've seen a few video's of how people get out of it. not sure if they were on you tube or face book
-
Hollow points are not illegal in NJ, it is additional time added to your sentence for using hollow points in the commission of a crime.
This can be tricky. I know a person that was charged going to a stop in NJ for having a gun locked in the back of their van. They had HP ammo (locked up too) which they were charged with additionally. The NJ reasoning was.. you committed a crime by having the gun there illegally, therefore the HP ammo is associated with said crime.
What do you mean "going to a stop". If they were stopping in New Jersey for anything other than something incidental to travel then they are guilty If however they were just passing through the state to another state where having that gun is legal then they are protected by the FOPA under federal law.
-
Folks let's remember it is NJ. They don't care. Lived there for 15 years and know people who were ordered out of their vehicles and searches conducted. I'm talking upstandup, well dressed, non confrontational folks driving the speed limit with no vehicle issues. Simply pulled over, license, registration and insurance requested, provided, then ordered out by officers often with handguns halfway drawn. I've personally experienced this in the Woodbury, NJ area myself and it's not fun, nor legal but guess what? There isn't anything you can do because it's the officers word over yours unless you have video or multiple witnessed.
Don't think for one second that you are protected by any law in NJ, NY or MD. Lots of LEOs in each of those states who do not agree that we should have firearms and an officer can pull out any reason for a stop and make up any excuse to go through your vehicle. They will arrest you without giving a crap about you or your family and then let the courts decide what happens.
MD also has a camera program tied into the computer systems of many states which they have used to harass legal out of state gun owners. Don't remember the program's name (it's listed on their state site) but a number of states provide ccw info along with plate requests and many out of state through drivers have been harassed and searched. Their state police and the bridge authority both widely do this. Thankfully Delaware does NOT share our CCDW permit info and it ant be used towards us.
-
i was born in Woodbury, l grew up in National Park, moved to Delaware with my parents when i was 17, been here ever since. i don't go up there to often, the police up there are brutal.
-
Red Bank Run Townhouses for 15 years just down the street from National Park. Used to include the Park in my running back in the day and spend a ton of time there just relaxing. Yes, LEOs in the area could be brutal though it was another officer who saved me during my incident with another, whose handgun was drawn and was ordering me out of my car for no reason, so not all were bad
A late night July 4th I was sitting out celebrating with our neighbors and the occasional illegal fireworks they had bought in PA iirc. Had a few more then a few, had just reached over to light another bottle rocket when from behind me I heard "I wouldn't light that".... Whoosh.. Too late! ;D We were asked for ID and while my neighbors were good, I still had all my Canadian ID. Try explaining, while intoxicated, that you legally live here, in that town home, with your American wife, but have all foreign ID only.. The reason being that even though Immigration law required them to process my paperwork and provide my ID in 6 months it took them over 4 years to do. He was pretty cool about it all though I though I was done-for when that rocket went. Lol That was 20 years ago now in my younger days.
-
i lived on the east side of town, my dad was a cop there when i was a kid. nice town for being only a square mile. have to brothers that still live in that area. me, i moved back once but like it here is tax free de. but nice to hear from people who lived back home.
-
Hollow points are not illegal in NJ, it is additional time added to your sentence for using hollow points in the commission of a crime.
This can be tricky. I know a person that was charged going to a stop in NJ for having a gun locked in the back of their van. They had HP ammo (locked up too) which they were charged with additionally. The NJ reasoning was.. you committed a crime by having the gun there illegally, therefore the HP ammo is associated with said crime.
Exactly. not saying its right, or even logical, but he "committed a crime" and the HP were connected to it. I have several municipality LEO friends there who have on occasion argued with NJSP about HP.
One story I even remember was that guy A was off duty at a gun shop buying things, to include HP, and a uniformed SP told him he better not buy that as he would lock him up right there/ threatened to shut down the shop for selling them. Conversation ensued and guy A called SP's supervisor, after several hours the supervisor arrived and informed them that guy A is correct.
And thats on a long list of why i voted with my feet and left the state
lol, you guys from woodbury/national park area. i was born and raised in west deptford. seems DE is the choice if the mrs doesnt want to go all the way to florida for south jersey residents :)
my comment would be, why would you lock it up in a separate box that will look suspicious which would give the police a reason to search your vehicle. through from my understanding they can not do without your permission or without a warrant and can not take you and your car in to be searched without placing you under arrest and they need a reason to do that
because thats the law, all 3 must be seperate
-
Used to go to the deptford mall all the time as a kid. my mom got a job there when i was young, back when it first opened up
-
The problem is LEOs are political, they have their sides, they also follow orders from supervisors on up. An officer can pretty much arrest anyone for very little and "just allow the courts to figure out the law". You couldn't pay me to enter NJ with a firearm for any reason (event, range visit, through-travel, etc), let alone with HPs under any circumstances. An officer there who wants to, most certainly can, and will, make the arrest, turning your life upside down while they go home satisfied at the end of their shift.
The LAW is NOT on your side. Innocent until proven guilty is pure BS today and "The LAW" will differ from one judge or jury to the next depending on how its twisted. Yes, its sad.. very very sad but that's the truth.
Best thing.. don't provide them with ammo against you (pun intended). While they might be legal, explain that to your wife and kids sitting at the dinner table here in DE while you sit waiting for your lawyer in a NJ jail cell.