Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
CCW Methods & Issues => No Carry Locations => Topic started by: Thlax on January 30, 2011, 03:04:31 AM
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I'm a student at UD and wanted to know where I may and may not carry around school? I would never take my firearm to class, however I am wondering if I may be allowed to walk on Main St with it while concealed? What is the more detailed law on schools/school zone/campus?
Thanks!
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With regards to schools you have to worry about two things: the FEDERAL law (Gun Free School Zone Act) that prohibits you from carrying a firearm within 1000' feet of a school. You are, however, EXEMPT from this if you have a license from the state in which the school resides, e.g. Delaware CCDW is exempts you from Delaware Schools. PA LTCF exempts you from PA schools, etc.
The section in the Delaware Criminal Code that penalizes carrying a firearm in a school zone actually takes effect ONLY if you are concealing without a license. If you're concealing with a license, or open carrying with a license, that'll cover you with regards to both state and federal law. You could technically open carry without a license and be within Delaware law, but you'd be violating Federal law.
The Post Office (and Federal property) is prohibited under Federal Law... google for that.
A Court House, Prisons, Police Stations are considered "Detention Facilities" and firearms are considered "contraband" and are, thus, verboten in these types of locations.
Any other public property (except state forest, state parks and lands controlled by Fish and Wildlife) should be lawful for you to carry a firearm.
Moosie
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I am not a student at UD. I believe I can legally carry on Main Street and anywhere else I decide to go in Newark, except for the Post Office.
As a student, you may have agreed to a code of conduct that prohibits firearms on campus (you should look into it, discreetly), but I did not.
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Oh boy, I was told by my instructor that the City of Newark was a no carry area. Anyone heard of this?
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Understood. I know all the normal allowed and not allowed places but I am not sure if I'm stepping on any fine lines with main st and such. When I take my CCW course in 2 weeks I'll get that clarified.
To the post above^^, interesting you heard your not even allowed to carry in Newark! That's where I would say I need it the most around my apartment. Not at home in Wilmington.
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I believe higher education facilities are NOT covered under the federal gun free school act. I have heard of many colleges that have their own policies or states that have laws against carrying and as far as I know Delaware does not.
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In regards to John's comment about the Peoples Republic of Newark.....I believe it used to be illegal to carry in Newark, as they had there own law separate from the rest of the state. But a year or two ago they accidentally let their paperwork lapse, and were forced to fall in line with the rest of the state.
Or maybe I dreamt that....
Tony
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Ugh I hope Newark is not still a Peoples Republic. I only ever want to hear Peoples Republic in reference to Maryland!
As I said in 2-3 weeks I'll be taking my CCW with Dave Johnson at First State Firearms Training and I'll make sure we sort out the law.
On a side note- Dave has been EXTREMELEY helpful answer questions even before I told him I'll take his class. Great man. Looking forward to taking his class:)
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Please ask Dave if he knows where we can "see it in writing" if it is illeagal to carry in Newark. Thanks.
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Regarding Newark, if you go to the De open carry forum, it lists this info, with a link to some internal memos.
· Newark Ordinance Revision: Partial success! In the latter half of 2007, the City of Newark was considering revising local ordinances to remove the prohibition on concealed carry, since state law already prohibits it with a harsher penalty. As law-abiding citizens, we fully agree with this change. The Council sought, however, to replace the ordinance with one that prohibited the open carry of firearms -- it even got as far as a first reading! Thankfully, the City Solicitor was informed that municipalities are prohibited from regulating the carrying of firearms and recommended that Bill 07-39 be defeated.
UPDATE: SUCCESS! Newark has amended its ordinance to defer to state law with regards to open and concealed carry within its limits, giving us clear law by which to follow and harsher penalties for those who would break the law.
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What section of the delaware criminal code is this written in?
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I would think that since most schools and college campuses are government property of some sort, you would not be able to carry there. Best to contact campus security now, then to have to deal with them if an incidence occures. Also it should be published if it is a policy and not written law.
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Delaware Title 11 Chapter 5 § 1457 "Possession of a weapon in a Safe School and Recreation Zone"
As far as traveling on Main Street, I would imagine that you are not violating the law. As Llong as you do not enter any real property under the control of the U of D.
The Attorney General's Office has stated CCDW Holders ARE NOT exempt to the Gun Free School Zone Law.
All Federal Goverment Buildings are Gun Free, All State of Delaware Buildings are not Gun Free.
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I apologize in advance for resurrecting an old thread, but could you please provide a source to said statement from the Attorney General's Office. I'd be interested in the wording, if it's in reference to Delaware or Federal Law and to whom it was directed.
As I'm sure it's been posted elsewhere, a Delaware Resident with a Delaware Concealed Carry of a Deadly Weapon Permit is permitted to carry within a "Gun Free School Zone" in Delaware both in accordance with Delaware State Code & Federal Law. If you require specific sources to these statues, please do not hesitate to ask. The only reason I don't post them now is I'm sure they've been otherwise posted somewhere on this forum.
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I would also like to have in writing the part about CCW licensees being able to carry in a school. In the wake of the tragedy in Connecticut, and being a public school educator I would like to keep the printout with my license in the event I am questioned. My School Resource Officer is aware that I carry, but I want to have in writing the actual law just in case. Thanks!!
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I believe higher education facilities are NOT covered under the federal gun free school act. I have heard of many colleges that have their own policies or states that have laws against carrying and as far as I know Delaware does not.
Correct.
18 USC § 921 Definitions
(a) As used in this chapter—
The term “school zone” means—
(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or
private school; or
(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of
a public, parochial or private school.
The term “school” means a school which provides
elementary or secondary education, as determined
under State law.
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I would also like to have in writing the part about CCW licensees being able to carry in a school. In the wake of the tragedy in Connecticut, and being a public school educator I would like to keep the printout with my license in the event I am questioned. My School Resource Officer is aware that I carry, but I want to have in writing the actual law just in case. Thanks!!
the official text of the US Code on the house.gov website is a little hard to view, but the basic version is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990
I think that this link (http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t17t20+540+0++%28%29%20%20AND%20%28%2818%29%20ADJ%20USC%29%3ACITE%20AND%20%28USC%20w%2F10%20%28922%29%29%3ACITE%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20) will take you to the correct section. 18 USC Section 922. From there, use your browsers internal search function for "q)" and it'll drop down. You'll need to scroll past the long-winded reasoning to subsection A for where the law actually starts. subsection B-ii is the one that exempt CCW permit holders.
oh and an easy link from our state Attorney General. http://attorneygeneral.delaware.gov/schools/laws/gunfree.htm
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Seems to me the way it is written, it puts the judgement call in the hands of the school district. If they want an armed guard, police, or contracted guard in the schools they can. Right?
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http://delaware.newszap.com/centraldelaware/119168-70/update-delaware-officials-outline-gun-proposals
The final proposal, sponsored by Dover legislator, Rep. Darryl M. Scott, D-Dover, would work to ban the possession of firearms within 1,000 feet of a school. Provisions have stated, “the law will not inhibit individuals who possess concealed weapons permits from carrying firearms in conformity with the permits and individuals who reside in a school zone will be exempt from prohibitions while the guns are on their property.”
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It sounds like , if you concieled carry, you can now be in school ?
I guess somebody figured out how many teachers had CCDW
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http://delaware.newszap.com/centraldelaware/119168-70/update-delaware-officials-outline-gun-proposals
The final proposal, sponsored by Dover legislator, Rep. Darryl M. Scott, D-Dover, would work to ban the possession of firearms within 1,000 feet of a school. Provisions have stated, “the law will not inhibit individuals who possess concealed weapons permits from carrying firearms in conformity with the permits and individuals who reside in a school zone will be exempt from prohibitions while the guns are on their property.”
And they leave their driveway heading to a gun range without a CCDW they are breaking the law... Technically. Go figure.
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And they leave their driveway heading to a gun range without a CCDW they are breaking the law... Technically. Go figure.
I interpret this as being in the same vein as the Castle Law. If you are inside your vehicle then it is considered to be the same as inside your house. Although I'm sure a lawyer could spin this any which way.
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That is how I understand as well
It sounds like , if you concieled carry, you can now be in school ?
I guess somebody figured out how many teachers had CCDW
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I apologize in advance for resurrecting an old thread, but could you please provide a source to said statement from the Attorney General's Office. I'd be interested in the wording, if it's in reference to Delaware or Federal Law and to whom it was directed.
As I'm sure it's been posted elsewhere, a Delaware Resident with a Delaware Concealed Carry of a Deadly Weapon Permit is permitted to carry within a "Gun Free School Zone" in Delaware both in accordance with Delaware State Code & Federal Law. If you require specific sources to these statues, please do not hesitate to ask. The only reason I don't post them now is I'm sure they've been otherwise posted somewhere on this forum.
Sorry to bring this up again, but I would like to know where I could see this in print.
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I apologize in advance for resurrecting an old thread, but could you please provide a source to said statement from the Attorney General's Office. I'd be interested in the wording, if it's in reference to Delaware or Federal Law and to whom it was directed.
As I'm sure it's been posted elsewhere, a Delaware Resident with a Delaware Concealed Carry of a Deadly Weapon Permit is permitted to carry within a "Gun Free School Zone" in Delaware both in accordance with Delaware State Code & Federal Law. If you require specific sources to these statues, please do not hesitate to ask. The only reason I don't post them now is I'm sure they've been otherwise posted somewhere on this forum.
Sorry to bring this up again, but I would like to know where I could see this in print.
I believe though, for the University of Delaware, this is a different law. When I spoke to local Newark PD/Campus PD (I know police arent always the most knowledgeable about the law on the books), they said no firearms can be on campus at all.
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I am enrolled at Wilmington University and attending classes in Georgetown (they share a few buildings with DelTech) and their Dover campus. I have been trying to find a specific answer and all they say in their online rules is that a student who is illegally possessing a deadly weapon their expelled and what ever charges that the police give. But they didn't show anything about specific Do's or Don'ts in regards to firearms or CCW. I can't afford to find out the hard way so I decided to call and ask them over the phone before one of their highly skilled security guards calls the police. The guy who answered first gave a bunch of "Um's" and then transferred me to Security. The guy was real nice and said that the school would ask that anyone legally possessing a firearm secure it in their car prior to entering any of the buildings. I didn't get into a lengthy conversation with him but I imagine they don't want it disturbing the class because not everyone is comfortable around someone with a gun. I am there for probably about 2 yrs so I will try to find out the specifics.
Long and short is Wilmington University said they want weapons secured in your vehicle while in class.
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I am enrolled at Wilmington University and attending classes in Georgetown (they share a few buildings with DelTech) and their Dover campus. I have been trying to find a specific answer and all they say in their online rules is that a student who is illegally possessing a deadly weapon their expelled and what ever charges that the police give. But they didn't show anything about specific Do's or Don'ts in regards to firearms or CCW. I can't afford to find out the hard way so I decided to call and ask them over the phone before one of their highly skilled security guards calls the police. The guy who answered first gave a bunch of "Um's" and then transferred me to Security. The guy was real nice and said that the school would ask that anyone legally possessing a firearm secure it in their car prior to entering any of the buildings. I didn't get into a lengthy conversation with him but I imagine they don't want it disturbing the class because not everyone is comfortable around someone with a gun. I am there for probably about 2 yrs so I will try to find out the specifics.
Long and short is Wilmington University said they want weapons secured in your vehicle while in class.
I think in UDs books it says no weapons on campus.....but I imagine it could be something like no guns in a school zone of sorts (but if you have a CCW its different). When i see shootings at schools and I express my frustration to my girl friend (shes OK with long guns but i am still working on her comfort level with pistols) she always argues people wouldnt be comfortable with me carrying. All I say is- you have no idea when I do and do not carry- that is the purpose of CC vs OC. No one would know.
But I have a couple months left then i am done so its not worth currently pursing...but all the muggings/robberies around newark has made me more cautious and carry everywhere except on campus. Its a pain but I think the skills learned with CCW, being more aware of your surroundings and such, has given me a lot more protection than the average joe, walking alone at night, not paying attention on their cell phone or even during the day.
I am always aware of my surrounds, if I am not comfortable, I move, move fast out of it. Just like vehicle accidents- you are more likely to get into a collision/such close to your home, I am extremely caution every step to my door.
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i believe that the UD campas is a no gun zone due to being state property.
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i believe that the UD campas is a no gun zone due to being state property.
I don't think UD is State property. It's website says it is "A state-assisted, privately governed institution,"
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All I know is you are exempt by law if you live within '1000 ft from a school
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Found this in UD Code of Conduct.
Prohibited Activities
Specific violations of this policy include, but are not limited to, the possession, use or threat of use of any of the following items on campus:
Any firearm (including any weapon or instrument from which a shot, projectile, or other object may be discharged by force, whether operable or inoperable, loaded or unloaded);
Any toy gun which, based on color, design or appearance, would be considered by a reasonable person to be an actual firearm;
Any deadly weapon, defined as any instrument, item, or material readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury;
Any BB gun, pellet gun, air rifle, paint gun, sword (whether decorative or not), or other martial arts weapon;
Any knife (other than an ordinary pocketknife carried in a closed position, with a blade of three inches or less or cutlery of a reasonable size, when used in a kitchen or other food preparation area); or
Any explosive chemical or device including a substance or a combination of substances possessed or prepared for the purpose of producing a visible or audible effect by combustion, explosion, deflagration, or detonation, including fireworks and illegal or potentially dangerous chemicals.
Note: Possession of a license to possess or use any of the above items shall not constitute a defense of any violation of this section.
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So with UD
Bascially there is no law against it they can just kick you out of school right?
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As a student it is against the code of conduct which all students agree to. If found responsible for violating the code (weapons violation) there would be a good chance that the student would be at least suspended and if multiple violations expulsion would be close behind.
As an employee there is a policy in the personnel manual about violence free campus
"Possessing a dangerous weapon or other harmful device on University property without prior authorization."
Termination of employment is possible.
Tony
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As a student it is against the code of conduct which all students agree to. If found responsible for violating the code (weapons violation) there would be a good chance that the student would be at least suspended and if multiple violations expulsion would be close behind.
As an employee there is a policy in the personnel manual about violence free campus
"Possessing a dangerous weapon or other harmful device on University property without prior authorization."
Termination of employment is possible.
Tony
So, the worst that would potentially happen is termination of employment/enrollment (at least, as the law is written).
I'd say that's probably better than potentially losing your life.
Sorry to bump the thread, just curious on determining 100% if this is an "illegal" no carry zone as opposed to a no carry zone as mandated by the ownership.