Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
CCW Methods & Issues => No Carry Locations => Topic started by: Simpleman71 on February 13, 2011, 01:13:48 AM
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Is carrying at the Harrington fairgrounds allowed or not. I know you can't carry in stateparks parks but are the fair grounds considered a park.
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During the fair there was sign at the entrance = no firearms
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Last time I was there did not see the sign. But, I did not look for it ;D
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Fair grounds are private property. Just like the Christiana Mall and TGI Fridays. But, the best they could say is aske you to leave.
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Question, how in the world would anyone know you are carrying unless someone see what you are carrying. That why we conceal carry so its not seen cant understand how would anyone know.
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I agree with Willie848
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It all comes down to, if you carry in a restricted zone and get caught, for whatever the reason, you have to be willing to accept the consequences. Whether that's being ask to leave or getting arrested and having you permit pulled. It's your choice. You have to ask your self, is it worth it.
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Even if it wasn't for the long walk in, the thousands of people that I don't know, the drunks, the loud-mouths, and the long walk out -- there's still the mass exodus. And that "leavin' mob" can get pretty wacky, considering that it can take an hour to drive out of the parking lot.
And given the amount of DSP that they hire to stand and walk around the place, even the promoters are concerned about safety. For that reason, I'm just lessening the load for them -- by protecting myself.
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It is illegal to carry in or on Casino grounds in the state of Delaware. so the fairgrounds would be off limits
You've said this a few times now and others have asked but I'll ask again.. Please show me/us the Delaware state code where it says we can't carry in casinos, the the grounds or the fairgrounds. From what I've seen many have looked for this and have found no actual law. It's private property. Internal policies don't carry the weight of the law. If caught all they can, legally, do is ask you to leave.. At which point you must leave or risk being arrested for trespassing.
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As I have said on the "3 Casinos" thread, I don't think there is a "State Law" , but reather a Casino Commission policy of them being a "no carry" zone, which is their right like any other business. But we don't "HAVE" to go there.
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Ok so its not illegal then. So what makes them stand out more then say Christiana Mall or other areas of private property who display No Firearms signs? Most agree that with CC they wouldn't or shouldn't know anyways. At most your looking to be asked to leave.
All I'm saying is don't tell people its illegal when it isn't. If there is no Delaware state code its not illegal and you can't be charged with it. Yes it's their right to not allow firearms on their property however its technically a Guns Free zone in anyway.
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You know it makes me feel so much better criminals will not be armed at places we are "asked" or forced not to take our guns.
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I took my wife, M-I-L and our Russian nephew to the fairgrounds this evening. I wasn't going in there unarmed, so I brought her little J-frame in .357 Magnum.
If the horse that bit my nephew hadn't let go pretty promptly, he might have become scrapple... by the time Joe Hurley got his fees, that would have been a hell of an expensive meal!
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Look at it this way, the Delaware State Fair grounds is a"no carry zone" by their own policy. Just because there is no written state law making it unlawful, does not mean it's smart to carry there. If you are caught carrying, more than likely the patrolling State Police will be called into the situation. You maybe unlucky enough to get a officer that is anti-gun, and while the lawa is, what the law is. this can end up very bad for you. Is it worth the risk to be on the short end of the deal. Get kicked out, and have to take your family home because you couldn't follow policy. I suggest if you won't leave your gun in the car/truck, or at home, best thing is to not go at all. Call it a protest, or what ever makes you feel right.
Good luck trying to convince your kids that you had to take them home from the "Fair" because you couldn't follow the rules. Remember kids watch and understand what you do, and mimic your ways. Is this sending them the right lesson, just so you can "feel right". I think not. The correct message to send them is that sometimes you have to do things in life, wether you agree with it or not.
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Look at it this way, the Delaware State Fair grounds is a"no carry zone" by their own policy. Just because there is no written state law making it unlawful, does not mean it's smart to carry there. If you are caught carrying, more than likely the patrolling State Police will be called into the situation. You maybe unlucky enough to get a officer that is anti-gun, and while the lawa is, what the law is. this can end up very bad for you. Is it worth the risk to be on the short end of the deal. Get kicked out, and have to take your family home because you couldn't follow policy. I suggest if you won't leave your gun in the car/truck, or at home, best thing is to not go at all. Call it a protest, or what ever makes you feel right.
Good luck trying to convince your kids that you had to take them home from the "Fair" because you couldn't follow the rules. Remember kids watch and understand what you do, and mimic your ways. Is this sending them the right lesson, just so you can "feel right". I think not. The correct message to send them is that sometimes you have to do things in life, wether you agree with it or not.
The more interesting thing would be explaining to kids how brilliant the policy is since criminals don't follow the laws.
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Look at it this way, the Delaware State Fair grounds is a"no carry zone" by their own policy. Just because there is no written state law making it unlawful, does not mean it's smart to carry there. If you are caught carrying, more than likely the patrolling State Police will be called into the situation. You maybe unlucky enough to get a officer that is anti-gun, and while the lawa is, what the law is. this can end up very bad for you. Is it worth the risk to be on the short end of the deal. Get kicked out, and have to take your family home because you couldn't follow policy. I suggest if you won't leave your gun in the car/truck, or at home, best thing is to not go at all. Call it a protest, or what ever makes you feel right.
Good luck trying to convince your kids that you had to take them home from the "Fair" because you couldn't follow the rules. Remember kids watch and understand what you do, and mimic your ways. Is this sending them the right lesson, just so you can "feel right". I think not. The correct message to send them is that sometimes you have to do things in life, wether you agree with it or not.
This is, of course, absolutely correct.
We had been to the fair before, and obeyed the sign. This time, bearing ultimate responsibility for the safety of a 9-year-old whose parents are 8000 miles away, I decided to risk being thrown out and/or interacting unpleasantly with the State Police.
When that horse chomped down on the boy's forearm, there was a moment where I thought I might need to, um, intervene. I was @@@@ glad to be breaking the rules right then, as that horse outweighed me by several hundred pounds and would not have been discouraged by any other defensive efforts I would have been able to offer.
Fortunately, the horse let go, the boy survived mostly unharmed, and I'm not in a holding cell in Harrington waiting for my lawyer.
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I find this an extremely important discussion to have. Where some on the open carry site may have jitters carrying in certain places, I’ve had jitters NOT carrying in some locations. This thread highlights some of the importance in balancing decisions with regard to where and when to carry. And whether or not there could be negative repercussions. This is, of course, risk management at the core.
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I'd say the more important topic here is how one shouldn't openly post on a public forum a disregard for private property laws, etc. If you're ever caught and get an anti-gun LEO who decides to make the arrest any prosecutor or investigator could easily search this forum. This type of post would not go well for you in a courtroom.
It's one thing to say 'carry at your own risk' in these places but its entirely different posting that you knowingly disregard the rules regardless of reason. I'm not judging. Just saying ...
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I'd say the more important topic here is how one shouldn't openly post on a public forum a disregard for private property laws, etc. If you're ever caught and get an anti-gun LEO who decides to make the arrest any prosecutor or investigator could easily search this forum. This type of post would not go well for you in a courtroom.
It's one thing to say 'carry at your own risk' in these places but its entirely different posting that you knowingly disregard the rules regardless of reason. I'm not judging. Just saying ...
Great point.
I think Clinton came up with a phrase that will fit here
"I did not have sex ......"
not that one "don't ask don't tell"
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"Is it worth the risk to be on the short end of the deal. Get kicked out, and have to take your family home because you couldn't follow policy."
To me, it is 100% worth the risk. The only "no guns" signs I pay attention to are the federal buildings, and my workplace, because they can fire me. Things can go south in a hurry wherever you are. This is why we all got permits. I've been carrying every day for four years, and nobody has been the wiser. Sometimes sporting events or fairs may have metal detectors or patting people down at the entrance. That's the time to lock it up in the car, or go home.
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Lumspond, well said. you summed it up and we all have to make our own decisions based on where we are and the repercussion that might occur.
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"Is it worth the risk to be on the short end of the deal. Get kicked out, and have to take your family home because you couldn't follow policy."
To me, it is 100% worth the risk. The only "no guns" signs I pay attention to are the federal buildings, and my workplace, because they can fire me. Things can go south in a hurry wherever you are. This is why we all got permits. I've been carrying every day for four years, and nobody has been the wiser. Sometimes sporting events or fairs may have metal detectors or patting people down at the entrance. That's the time to lock it up in the car, or go home.
I agree...If I want to go somewhere and I can not carry...Good chance, I am not going........
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Delaware State Fair is over. And, that prettywell answers that.
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Delaware State Fair is over. And, that prettywell answers that.
The funny thing is there might have been some people who carried guns in there that they were legally permitted to carry based on law. I don't think I heard of one gun incident?
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I had a family member who used to work for the fair. If i remember correctly it was only posted DURING the fair in regards to the fairgrounds. I also think that has more to do with the casino than anything. The casino-fairground situation is weird because their two separate companies...sort of. I wanted to take my carry with me and my mom when we went just because I for one feel weird NOT carrying at this point. But i relented because she is still friends with many of the directors and I knew that going to visit her friends in the casino (a few of the executives) would be a strong possibility. I really didn't want to cause a scene because I print a bit (bought my carry in December and it its a bit big for summer clothes) I grabbed my Gerber and left the carry in my room.
I don't know if this is true but I was told that if a business in DE has a no weapons sign and you knowingly (hard to prove) disregard it, you are trespassing at that point. If they were to call the police you could be charged because the sign carries the same weight as them verbally asking you to leave. Ignoring it is the same as refusing to leave. I may be wrong so don't bite my head off because I'm no lawyer, just giving my opinion and what I've always believed.
I haven't looked through laws because it doesn't really offend me because I respect the business and take my business elsewhere. This is why I haven't stepped foot in BWW in Dover in a long time.
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I don't know if this is true but I was told that if a business in DE has a no weapons sign and you knowingly (hard to prove) disregard it, you are trespassing at that point. If they were to call the police you could be charged because the sign carries the same weight as them verbally asking you to leave. Ignoring it is the same as refusing to leave. I may be wrong so don't bite my head off because I'm no lawyer, just giving my opinion and what I've always believed.
For the record, that is not true.
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Of course as good gun owners we all obey the signs. ;D
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I haven't looked through laws because it doesn't really offend me because I respect the business and take my business elsewhere. This is why I haven't stepped foot in BWW in Dover in a long time.
I spoke with the owner of the DE BWW franchise; he is pro-carry in his restaurants "as long as you are legal". The no gun rule is corporate only not the DE BWW Franchise. Dover, as you know, requires either a CC permit or a letter from the chief of police to open carry. (Correct me, if I'm wrong on Dover).