Delaware Concealed Carry Forum

State News & Gun News => Delaware News => Topic started by: SturmRugerSR9 on January 05, 2013, 07:36:15 PM

Title: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: SturmRugerSR9 on January 05, 2013, 07:36:15 PM
Found this and thought all should know:

New UPDATE on rally:
 Update on the Jan 20 Second Amendment rally. Sponsors met with John Sigler, Jeff Hague and Karen Gritton, the organizers. Our key note speaker will be David Keene, President of the NRA, MC is John Sigler, past President of the NRA, and they are lining up the other speakers. Rally is at the Modern Maturity Center, 1121 Forrest Ave, Dover, DE, from 1-3, doors open at 12. We need to get the people together to organize a call to action against the upcoming gun legislation. All grassroots organizations in Delaware, all gun organizations in Delaware and all concerned citizens are invited as well as their friends. The hall can hold 800 people. This will be a peaceful rally. Let's fill it up! It is free to the public. REMEMBER...Dover is NOT open carry.

 This is NOT about the tea party but about our 2A rights. There are bills being introduced (several) on the State level as well as the Federal level. They hope to overwhelm us with bills as to, at least, pass some. It is critical that we stand together against this infringement on our rights. Please attend and bring a friend. Thanks.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: TwistedKarma on January 05, 2013, 10:12:03 PM
Ok, not open carry...   But??????
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: JOET on January 05, 2013, 11:35:27 PM
Does anybody know who the sponsors are? John Sigler is a director of DSSA, and someone posted he may be the next president. Sounds like an event that everyone should attend.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: SturmRugerSR9 on January 06, 2013, 01:04:34 PM
The organizers are listed in the first line of the "Update" quoted below. I believe the "sponsors" would be vendors putting up money and mercandise to foot the expenses.
Title: 2nd Amendment rally
Post by: Rfscanner on January 06, 2013, 06:10:51 PM
2nd Amendment Rally
Sunday, January 20, 1:00 - 3:00 pm
Modern Maturity Center, Dover

1121 Forrest Ave, Dover (Rt 8 West)

Doors open at 12:00

Keynote Speaker

David A. Keene, President, National Rifle Association of America

Former Chairman - American Conservative Union

MC, John Sigler, Past President, National Rifle Association of America

And a distinguished list of local and national leaders

Hosted and sponsored by: 9-12 Delaware Patriots and the Delaware State Sportsman
 Association.


Delaware is gearing up to introduce a damaging gun control bill in January. They
 are prepared to insdistractionute strict gun laws that will take away our 2nd Amendment
 rights to keep and bear arms. The only way to defeat this bill is to come together
and fight this together.


We are expecting a record crowd to attend the Second Amendment rally. This is a
peaceful rally to bring together supporters of the 2nd Amendment rights in Delaware.
It will be an exciting rally with guest speakers who are leaders and supporters
of the 2nd Amendment from Delaware and national organizations.
So bring a friend who may not understand the high stakes we are facing. After the
rally, they will understand!
We should have a flyer announcement within a day or two prepared and we will ask
 you to print out and hand to others who are interested in preserving their Second
Amendment rights.
We are encouraging our 9-12 Delaware Patriot members to wear their 9-12 DePat shirts.
And don't forget to bring a friend!

"The  Consdistractionution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United
 States, who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms . . ." Samuel  Adams
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment rally
Post by: SturmRugerSR9 on January 06, 2013, 07:13:34 PM
Passing on to everyone I can think of......
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment rally
Post by: Rfscanner on January 06, 2013, 11:42:47 PM
2nd  Amendment Freedom Rally
Sunday, January 20, 1:00 - 3:00  pm
Modern Maturity Center, Dover

1121 Forrest Ave,  Dover (Rt 8 West)

Doors  open at 12:00

Please print and distribute the flyer
below to your like minded friends and family!
Thank you Eva!
2nd Amendment Freedom Rally Flyer
http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001OSKQGGmYG7ptCCpvHjgekuuct9bd6plnVLrTWIEo5hbwCuS8gPhSXjxZKQDQjbIpZNDKbi4sUvuI0jKfMYHSv0pwvwLVWAuKwuIuH4FMPc5eJ4Ed9avtFcMVMeY6Mrv0SG-MPxROivoBHD2b60-I6DlKrY5ng2v-CtqRR_oBDayYl_XI2Tg9JZdl2QEtEWROoHd5dLKQEhY=
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment rally
Post by: oldgraygeek on January 07, 2013, 12:42:28 AM
I'll make every effort to attend: there should be at least one liberal in attendance.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment rally
Post by: CMF on January 07, 2013, 02:08:37 AM
Crap! Now I find this  :(
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment rally
Post by: Fishhunter911 on January 08, 2013, 03:27:28 PM
I plan on attending and hope to bring some friends.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment rally
Post by: Just Bill on January 08, 2013, 04:02:21 PM
I plan on coming, but can anyone tell me what that word means?????????  Not in any dictionary.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment rally
Post by: SturmRugerSR9 on January 08, 2013, 07:41:08 PM
If you haven't figured it out yet, this site no longer takes pictures  or avatars, Just Bill and CMF.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment rally
Post by: Just Bill on January 08, 2013, 10:29:59 PM
Not sure what those "huh" are.  All I did was post a question.  What is the long word attributed to Sam Adams??
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: chriswalrath on January 09, 2013, 03:45:06 AM
Yeah, I caught that indistinctualizationalized word as well.  I took it to mean instituted.

Yeah, I hope to bring a few with me.  CCDW perm will be a good thing to have.  I hope to see a few of you there.  Just look for the fat kid wearing the black Ohio State baseball cap with the red 'O' on it.  (Small Nike swish in the back).

What?!?
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: SeanM on January 09, 2013, 05:17:37 PM
I've posted this article to help promote the event:

http://www.examiner.com/article/delaware-second-amendment-rally-set-for-sunday (http://www.examiner.com/article/delaware-second-amendment-rally-set-for-sunday)

Sean
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Chicken4u2 on January 12, 2013, 07:26:11 PM
Count me in. I'm telling everybody I can.

I'm in the Hartly area, if there is anything I can do to help?
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: SturmRugerSR9 on January 12, 2013, 11:49:11 PM
I had to go to Walmart in Milford today to get some munchies and took some hand bills for the 2nd Amendment Rights Rally over to the Sporting Goods Dept. and asked if I could leave them on the counter for customers to take. The guy at the counter said it was ok. I did not have a lot left, but I left what I had. I'll try to print more this week and post in stores and places where people will see them. I heard they are suppose to have seating for 800 people. Hope to see a packed crowd. Remember, it is only legal to carry(open or concealed) in the City of Dover if you have a DECCW permit. Be smart, be legal.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment rally
Post by: CMF on January 14, 2013, 01:48:13 AM
Crap! Now I find this 
Whoa! Was able to make changes, can attend now. We have to set priorities and this is important to our future.
CMF
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Hdrules on January 14, 2013, 02:52:52 AM
Will be attending !
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: SturmRugerSR9 on January 19, 2013, 11:30:18 PM
COME ON GUYS AND GALS, LET'S PACK THE PLACE!!!
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Rfscanner on January 20, 2013, 12:35:50 AM
Hope there is a better turn out for this one, than there was for the one today!
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: SturmRugerSR9 on January 20, 2013, 12:54:50 AM
I didn't go to the one today either. I didn't think it would be very organized. Sounded to me like people were to show up and hold a protest sign and figure out what else to do. I understand the 2nd Amendment Rights/Freedom Rally at the MMC is going to be very well organized, and of course they are going to have the President of the NRA and the former President of the NRA as Master of Ceremonies, as well as others. It has to be big if the National President of the NRA is showing up.

If this is poorly attended, then firearms owners will show the Government that they are not involved and are a bunch of wussies when it comes to standing up for there rights.  All Show And No Go!

 Is that what you want to be seen as?

 Get off the sofa and be somebody!
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: oldgraygeek on January 20, 2013, 01:11:35 AM
My friend (another permit holder) and I are going tomorrow. What's the secret deccw.com handshake again?
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Lumspond on January 20, 2013, 01:50:25 AM
I'll be attending with a friend who just joined the NRA.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: TwistedKarma on January 20, 2013, 01:55:45 AM
My friend (another permit holder) and I are going tomorrow. What's the secret deccw.com handshake again?
     stroking your 1911 and rolling your eyes to the back of your head.   
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: oldgraygeek on January 20, 2013, 11:21:06 AM
Quote
stroking your 1911 and rolling your eyes to the back of your head.

I'll be wearing a SmartCarry, so that might be misconstrued...  :o
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: kimmie on January 20, 2013, 11:33:05 AM
Husband and myself WILL be there!  Will probably be wearing my "Let Freedom Ring" tshirt ..has Lady Liberty on it raising her AR-15 in the air!  I offered it to a friend to wear since they were going to the inaugural but she declined! 
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Lumspond on January 20, 2013, 02:25:28 PM
Too funny Kimmie!
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: mominde on January 20, 2013, 08:38:20 PM
GREAT turnout today! I think there was seating for 800, plus the 400-600 it seemed in the standing only sections and out the door! I was out of speaker range for the most part.  Was is recorded?  Or maybe a few sound bites you all could share?
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: oldgraygeek on January 20, 2013, 08:51:56 PM
My friend and I were seated in the front row, and we got to meet David Keene before the event started.

I told him, "Sir, I'm glad to meet you, because I have a confession to make: I'm probably the dumbest sumb**ch in this room."

"In what way?"

"I've been telling people for years, 'Relax... Obama's not coming for your guns!'"

We had a pretty good laugh over that one... I wish it was actually funny.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: JOET on January 20, 2013, 09:22:43 PM
I sat in the very back row as you come in the door. After that it was "standing room only". It was a Great Day...
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Lumspond on January 20, 2013, 09:23:39 PM
You got a good seat OldGray. We got there at 1:00 (11:30-1:00 social, 1-3 talks), and had to shove it from outside. Was standing against the back wall, just inside the door. I only lasted about an hour, as the room was stuffy and my feet were hurting. A women told us it was SRO since 11:35. I enjoyed the fellow who drove down from NY, and told stories of what is coming if we don't all act.
There was well over 1,000 people there. No news vans of course. I'd post the one photo I took if I knew how.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Lumspond on January 20, 2013, 09:33:27 PM
Does this work?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57785368@N03/8399192715/in/photostream
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: SturmRugerSR9 on January 20, 2013, 09:53:49 PM
I got out of church in Harrington at 12:22 Pm and headed for Dover and by the time I got there and found a place to park (in a shopping center up the street) the closest i got was in the entrance hallway. Here is what I heard. They had seating for just over 600, but were expecting possible 800 to show. The best guess I heard was 2000 people showed up. I talked to a guy tha goes to a lot of events there, and he said they had never had one that big before. I talked to one guy that drove down from Pa. and he was next to me in the hallway too. I had made the comment that I was hoping there would be standing room only, packed. That I would be glad to stand to get people there. Well, it happened.
Gongratulations to the DSSA and the 912 Delaware Patriots for their organizing the super successful event.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: JOET on January 20, 2013, 10:01:30 PM
So Lumspond, I am in you picture.... left hand bottom cornor the guy in the white shirt standing...I am sitting, the back of my head (grey hair) is right on his right shoulder. So now you know who I am..hahaha!!
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Lumspond on January 20, 2013, 10:04:47 PM
I see you Joe. Black t-shirt. How cool is that!
Glad to meet you, sort of.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Adrenolin on January 20, 2013, 10:08:33 PM
Lumspond.. I was at that exact same place.. only at the other back corner.

Was talking with one of the organizers afterwards and was told that they gave up counting at about 1500. She thought they had 1000 bags they passed out and had a count of 500 after that and lost count. Figured 400 to 500 people came in after that. So 1900 to 2000 people roughly is what they think were in attendance from the people working the door.

I had a kid pass out at my feet who I helped a bit with his father and a Dover officer. Heat or something but he came to fairly quickly and they all went outside.
Got to talk to David Keene for a few minutes and thanked him for their hard work.

First time I have attended a rally or any type and found it went along very well.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: CMF on January 20, 2013, 10:08:59 PM
I made it inside by 1:15 after trying every entrance. Then I became one of those annoying people who moved forward by excusing myself and was able to comfortably view the entire program. The wife was so glad to be there and listen to the speakers. All were spot on and I felt John Atkins (Democrat) summed it up as the closing speaker. We are ALL AMERICANS and the Constitution is for every party, every person. Great comment on Piers Morgan John! A very eclectic group of spectators who represented a slice of America, glad we made the rally. Where is the next!
CMF
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: JOET on January 20, 2013, 10:10:03 PM
lumspond, Yep that is me...too bad that I didnt know who you were. I live near Port Penn, you probally live up this way too.

If you what to go to a range and shoot some day, let me know..Wife and I go once a week or so..
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Lumspond on January 20, 2013, 10:23:25 PM
JoeT, I live just west of St. George's. I usually shoot at Ommelanden, but only in nice weather as my hands get super cold. I'll look you up as spring comes. Right around the corner.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: JOET on January 20, 2013, 10:25:48 PM
Lumspond, can shoot indoors, have membership at shooters choice. If you want to go..PM me..anytime.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Lumspond on January 20, 2013, 10:31:17 PM
As far as the next one CMF, DSSA is having their annual meeting next Sunday the 27th.
- Displays from club members
- Presentation on DE concealed carry laws
- NRA past president John Sigler will speak
- You will have the opportunity to meet with NRA-ILA lobbyist assigned to DE

FOP lodge
Kitts Hummock rd
Dover
Doors open at 1, business meeting at 3.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: mominde on January 21, 2013, 12:40:50 AM
I'm curious on how many people were carrying (nrn).  All those guns and not one person shot.  Hmm?  I guess guns really are NOT the problem.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Lumspond on January 21, 2013, 02:05:48 AM
+1
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: JOET on January 21, 2013, 02:07:14 AM
+2
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: JOET on January 21, 2013, 03:17:34 AM
http://www.catchitlive.com/

Video of today..
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: oldgraygeek on January 21, 2013, 10:16:05 AM
My friend and I are in the front row, shown in this News Journal photo. I'm in the dark red shirt, with gray hair & glasses:
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/717/newsjournal20130119.jpg)
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: JOET on January 21, 2013, 11:30:41 AM
How about that..now we know who you are...Where did the " Old Grey Geek " thing come from?? HAHAHA!!! good to see you..
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Just Bill on January 21, 2013, 11:40:03 AM
Got there at noon, no seats left.  Went to the back room but no sound, so stood for the duration.  Interesting to see the News Journal gave it a fair article, not there style usually.  They did omit the Bidens comment, "..... I did not say that...".

It was a worthwile trip.  I found that I am not alone in my anger and frustration with the libs.  I had stopped writing to our Washington gang because they either did not reply or the reply had nothing to do with my topic.  I need to get off my butt!!  Time to burn up some paper again.  And I need to get on the locals, since we are now also in a local fight.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Radnor on January 21, 2013, 12:15:07 PM
I was there.  GREAT event.  Glad to see so many turn out.

+1 on the gun @ the event.

Like they said, let's contact our elected officials regularly.

Was going to do my good deed for the day.  There was a really old timer
walking after the event. I asked him if he was OK.  Said he was, just tired
and occasionally dizzy.  I was going to get the gent to sit down and get my
car (in the development) and give him a ride to his.  But someone offered
to drive him.  So I helped the old timer into the truck and off he went.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Just Bill on January 21, 2013, 12:39:39 PM
Just curious why so much Dover PD presence, unless they were there to listen???  Did they expect us to shoot up the place???  There was one guy carrying a backpack that made me nervous(did not look middle eastern), but no one with a gun would have bothered me.

If you looked around the room, it looked like a cross section of the country, without the kooks.  Middle America, like a Tea Party gathering.  VERY unlike an Omaba gathering with union thugs, etc.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: kimmie on January 21, 2013, 02:13:48 PM
+1   

I think I saw myself in the flickr link (well the back of my head).  LOL Hubby and I both had our Lady Liberty shirts on - she's in green holding her AR-15.  We sat towards the back, maybe 5 rows or so from the back and 5 from the back.  Hubby was giving me updates as I was driving to get there and said they opened the doors earlier than they planned.  We managed to find a couple of seats. 

It was an AWESOME turnout!

Had planned on going next Sunday but not sure as we're having a family thing. 
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: formerly known as frank on January 21, 2013, 03:05:41 PM
Old Gray, look at your picture, right in front of your face you can see a tan baseball cap with a green bill, that is me. As far as the Dover PD presence, they were there to support the event and because there were rumors of protestors trying to disrupt the show. I saw no protestors, not even one sign, inside or outside No one tried to disrupt any speaker, there was only much repeated applause.
  I urge ev eryone on this forum To contact your state senator and representative, do not let Markell, Biden and Marshall turn Delaware into New York.





http://www.thecommentator.com/articl...cation_of_guns



























Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Fishhunter911 on January 21, 2013, 03:33:33 PM
So Lumspond, I am in you picture.... left hand bottom cornor the guy in the white shirt standing...I am sitting, the back of my head (grey hair) is right on his right shoulder. So now you know who I am..hahaha!!

I am in the maroon shirt just to the left of your head!!
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Obleo on January 21, 2013, 05:04:27 PM
Sad, sad, sad reporting:

http://www.wboc.com/story/20635770/2nd-amendment-rally-in-dover
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Bmel17 on January 21, 2013, 06:58:04 PM
Just curious why so much Dover PD presence, unless they were there to listen???  Did they expect us to shoot up the place???  There was one guy carrying a backpack that made me nervous(did not look middle eastern), but no one with a gun would have bothered me.

If you looked around the room, it looked like a cross section of the country, without the kooks.  Middle America, like a Tea Party gathering.  VERY unlike an Omaba gathering with union thugs, etc.

If you remember the NRA press conference the following week after Sandy Hook, there were a lot of antis jumping up and disrupting it screaming NRA is the root of evil" and other various garbage.  Dover PD was there for that and also as Frank stated to control possible protesters.  I will say the police were very nice and courteous. 
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: CMF on January 21, 2013, 07:05:44 PM
WBOC found it necessary to troll the Sheeple for an opposition opinion: "Melissa Carey is a Dover resident who said she stands behind the President and his quest to ban those types of weapons."

Hundreds in attendance? BS! Same counter must have been at Glenn Beck's Rally on the Mall.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Radnor on January 21, 2013, 07:41:27 PM
I will say the police were very nice and courteous. 
Absolutely!!!  I was walking to my car talking to one.  Nothing but PROFESSIONALISM.
Upon leaving him, I wished him a safe shift.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: JOET on January 21, 2013, 07:52:09 PM
FishHunter911...now I know what the back of your head looks like.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Lumspond on January 21, 2013, 08:30:12 PM
JoeT, thanks for the link to the videotaping. I was going to search for it as I missed the end of the program. It's all there.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: JOET on January 21, 2013, 09:10:15 PM
okay lumspond... you want to shoot some day PM me have membership at shooters choice..we go once a week or so..

Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Lumspond on January 21, 2013, 10:39:42 PM
I will do that. Thanks for the invite Joe.
Cheers.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: JOET on January 22, 2013, 12:21:27 AM
lumspond: anytime
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: oldgraygeek on January 22, 2013, 02:10:35 AM
As far as the Dover PD presence, they were there to support the event and because there were rumors of protestors trying to disrupt the show. I saw no protestors, not even one sign, inside or outside No one tried to disrupt any speaker, there was only much repeated applause.
There was a retired Delaware State Police officer in very well-disguised plainclothes (short blue dress) sitting near us up front, providing undercover security. We were talking, and the subject of the "NO WEAPONS" sign came up. I told her,
"Yes, I saw the sign. I know it doesn't have force of law, so I'm not committing a crime, but I will leave peacefully if you ask me to."

She didn't.
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: Condition 1 on January 22, 2013, 03:10:23 AM
As far as the Dover PD presence, they were there to support the event and because there were rumors of protestors trying to disrupt the show. I saw no protestors, not even one sign, inside or outside No one tried to disrupt any speaker, there was only much repeated applause.
There was a retired Delaware State Police officer in very well-disguised plainclothes (short blue dress) sitting near us up front, providing undercover security. We were talking, and the subject of the "NO WEAPONS" sign came up. I told her,
"Yes, I saw the sign. I know it doesn't have force of law, so I'm not committing a crime, but I will leave peacefully if you ask me to."

She didn't.

Outstanding oldgreygeek!
Title: Re: 2nd Amendment Rights Rally
Post by: kimmie on January 22, 2013, 11:56:31 AM
Sad, sad, sad reporting:

http://www.wboc.com/story/20635770/2nd-amendment-rally-in-dover

Same counter of course ...same one they use for A LOT of these where they don't want J.Q.Public to know the TRUTH.  How many years I did Rolling Thunder in DC (Memorial Day weekend) and they ALWAYS under counted! 

Back to WBOC and their scouring to find (only 1 person out of what, 1500) that is against it:

Outside of the rally, everyone was not on the same page. Melissa Carey is a Dover resident who said she stands behind the President and his quest to ban those types of weapons.

"There is no reason for people to have these assault weapons in their home unless they're going to be doing negative things with them," said Carey.



Yes  that negative thing I am going to do in MY HOUSE is because of a CRIMINAL coming INTO my house uninvited planning on doing NEGATIVE THINGS to me and my family.  And if you think for ONE MINUTE that I could persuade that criminal to sit down and have some coffee - well you're beyond naive!