Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
General Gun Discussion => Ammunition and Re-Loading => Topic started by: SCUBA9097 on January 26, 2014, 04:19:15 AM
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Am I the only one not "drooling" over this new R.I.P. ammo?
http://bearingarms.com/g2-researchs-r-i-p-is-the-last-round-youll-ever-need-um-no/ (http://bearingarms.com/g2-researchs-r-i-p-is-the-last-round-youll-ever-need-um-no/)
In my opinion, they have done a phenomenal job at marketing, but it's not something I would ever consider carrying for personal defense.
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Just posted this in another section (http://deccw.com/index.php?topic=3373.0).. Should have posted it here I guess.
While I'd love to get me some and put it through my firearm I'm not sure I'd carry it just yet. I'd still want to see more testing. It does look simply devastating though.
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Boy, this new ammo sure gets your Adrenolin pumping! :D
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"Um, no"
Agree with the title.
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Boy, this new ammo sure gets your Adrenolin pumping! :D
Lol I do like seeing new technologies. It's exciting to see what could be.
As I've stated I doubt I'd carry it simply because it hasn't been independently tested enough. I'd still like to see how it cycles through my defensive firearms out of curiosity. That said if someone were looking to do me or my family harm the entire idea of self defense is to stop said person. The reason you don't carry FMJs in your carry weapon is because the Hollow Point effectively stops the person faster due to more internal trauma. This simply adds more internal trauma, so they say.
10 years from now the idea behind this new round could be what everyone carries.
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Adrenolin,
You would probably love to see some of the "display" ammunition I have. Some of the rounds I have were created by major manufacturers 20+/- years ago but never released to the public.
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Maybe be something useful but it reminds me of the "new fishing lure" syndrome.
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We shot a guy at 30 and Governor Printz wearing a down coat. Feathers went everywhere! (looked like a chicken coop exploded). It put him down but the coat did absorb a lot of the energy.
After watching the video I wouldn't want to be shot with them, then again, I don't want to be shot with anything. But I will bet you a dollar to a donut the press will have them labeled as "cop killer bullets" or some such other frightening name. Doctors will complain about the sharp fragments cutting through their gloves. The government will buy 40 billion dollars worth.
Just my guess.
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Who remembers when the Winchester Black Talon ammo came out? It was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then, in the early 90's, several civilian shootings happened involving them and the media had a field day with it. Of course, it was the ammo's fault (eye roll). Winchester pulled them from production. They eventually released them again under a different name. The media caught on again and Winchester killed it all together... until 2009. Now, they're happily back on the market under SXT (some say it stands for Same eXact Thing). But with only a few minor changes to the coating and some cavity dimensions, a very similar round is alive and well.
This round, I suspect, will go similarly like the Black Talon. It's ugly, claims to pack one heck of a destruction path, and is lead free. Why wouldn't anyone want to carry the new RIP round? http://youtu.be/mJGH7cDFw7c (http://youtu.be/mJGH7cDFw7c) God forbid, if I ever had to use my firearm to protect myself, I sure as heck wouldnt want to sit there thinking man, I wish I had a more powerful round considering the bad guy who is shooting at me, is using this devastating round. If you're already carrying a firearm, you're already taking responsibility for your actions - should you have to defend yourself or loved ones. Right? You didn't simply complete your CCW class and now go to the range here and there to "practice", right? You're continuing your "education" and taking situational awareness classes. Oh, you're not? Shame on you!
This round is like no other and is not released to the public yet. YET. At $40 for 20 rounds, I doubt many folks will be buying a ton of this to take to the range. But like any other round you carry, you should do your research and homework. That's what a responsible CCW'er does.
Ok, back to your regularly scheduled program.
Moosie
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Good advice! Moosie should offer eduactional credtis to people that read her comments. This one is easily worth .5 credit hours.
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LMAO, umm.. thank you, but no.
Oh, and FYI... I stand corrected. It HAS been released for public purchase. I'm trying to find details on it.. is it limited to only specific states, etc. I'll post the info if I can find there are limitations on it. Oh, and you'll all be happy to know that today, one box. a SINGLE box of 20 rounds of RIP ammo has reached $350 on gunbroker. That's $17.50 per round. ;D Happy bidding you crazy kids! LOL
Moosie
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Yeah I was going to correct you but you noticed they we already available.. Though sold out. Their max monthly production currently is 60,000 rounds and they sold out the first day. Sales are only through a few LGS in their area but also through 5-6 online vendors. Unfortunately their stock sold out so quickly most of the online vendors didn't get any in time.
As I said, I'd like to pickup a couple boxes mainly to see how they shoot and cycle though my firearm. I have no issues with anyone using it in their carry piece however I do have issues carrying an untested round and at this time the ammo is untested. Until I see it independently tested I'd certainly not carry it. The legal issues are really no more different then what was (and still is) said about today's hollow points by the prosecution. They are so much more deadly and devastating then a 'standard' FMJ bullcrud. If you need to defend yourself or your family then the point is to stop the attacker by any means necessary. If this round does work as good as they claim and once tested and proven then it could be a great choice.
If one can get away then great however Violence is usually only stopped by someone with the ability to produce more violence then the initiator.
Edit.. I'm a pretty laid back guy.. Really I am :)
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Head over to gunbroker.com. They had several boxes available... last price I saw was $350 a box. So, pick up a few boxes LOL
Here's one of the things that I've started to see at an alarming rate... people "reviewing" or "testing" guns, gear, ammo, sites, etc.. what makes them the best qualified person to be passing judgement on all of those things?? Make sure you know who's feeding you info. In the last two months I've been all over the country (and out of the country as well) and I've had the privilege to meet and hang out with folks from various industries and various backgrounds. Some have started publishing "reviews"... this is nothing more than what THEY feel are the strong points or weak points of whatever they're reviewing. Most often, many people disagree with their view, but oh wait... it's published on the internet and they claim to have lots of experience, training, etc.
Bottom line, read, read, and read more. And then, do your own research. Since I dont think we have any ballistics experts on this site (please.. correct me if I'm wrong), how will you interpret the data that is shown, once "independent" testing is done?
Don't drink the kool-aid before the party. Do your own research.
Moosie
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Chuckles.. Independent testing certainly isn't Billy Bob posting his backyard field shooting tests on YouTube. I'm well aware of this but thanks ;D
Gunbroker.. Ahh the people with more money then brains. Don't think so. It's like the 4lb bottle of W231 on GunBroker bid up to $265 bucks already with a few days yet to go.
I called and got placed on a waiting list for their next batch and ordered a couple boxes. Figure at least another month or so before they ship.
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I still have a box of black talon ammo in 9mm. If anyone wants to give me $350 for the box, I'm all in.
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Here's another; http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/01/08/the-high-tech-bullet-that-does-something-pretty-cool-to-help-hit-its-target/ (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/01/08/the-high-tech-bullet-that-does-something-pretty-cool-to-help-hit-its-target/)
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I definitely don't like that round. The splintered off teathered segments, while would certainly hurt, don't look like they would have much in the way of penetration if any at all.
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A friend of mine, Aaron Cowan, of Sage Dynamics (a firearms training guy) recently had this to say (on instagram) about the RIP round.. I trust his judgement and knowledge on this.
"This round, the "RIP" round is visually stunning...seeing dozens of them punched into ballistic gel was impressive. Here's the problem though (besides the name). Handguns are poor man stoppers when compared to rifles, and a round such as this that is designed to fragment inside the body is not going to do so with sufficient energy to cause the temporary wound cavities you would see with a rifle caliber round...which leaves us with the fact that outside of a strike to the central nervous system, the only means of physiological incapacitation is through blood loss... As this round fragments, the largest source of blood loss is going to be the entry wound (the fragments, even if they were to exit the body which is unlikely, would leave such small exit wounds as to add very little to overall blood loss). Since the entry wound is literally handgun caliber yet the round does not retain all or most of its mass as it enters the body, it loses the advantage of a permanent wound cavity of a preferable diameter to aid in blood loss. Even traditional hollow points are not of sufficient diameter to totally sever arteries in most cases, which is the best case vital hit outside of a CNS hit, so to then rely on a round with even less chance of large diameter tissue/organ/vessel damage is foolish. Bottom line, this round is a gimmick. I have no problem calling out a product that people may depend on for self defense if I believe the product to be disingenuous.
Moosie
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In addition to what Mr. Cowen stated, there is also an increased risk of the fragments that either haven't hit the target or struck shallow/soft areas hitting unintentional targets. As we know, every shot fired carries a potential lawsuit.
With all these combined risk factors, there is also the addition of how a jury (which would have to be presumed to be ignorant on firearms, wounding factors, etc.) would view the appearance and marketing hype of these rounds.
I have stated from day one that they would be a nice addition to my display shelf, but I wouldn't recommend them for defensive carry.
Having said that, if I were attacked by ballistic gelatin... ;D
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I came across my first independent review of the ammo today. Now I'm not familiar with the reviewer and he puts of a bit of a "odd", used car salesman vibe, but the ballistic results, if accurate, are not too surprising to me.
Take a look at the video and judge for yourself.
http://www.firearmsportal.com/firearms-news/438-rip-9mm-all-the-performance-of-22-lr (http://www.firearmsportal.com/firearms-news/438-rip-9mm-all-the-performance-of-22-lr)
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Yeah I just watched the same thing over here (http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=10742&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=g2-researchs-rip-9mm-all-the-performance-of-a-22-long-rifle&utm_reader=feedly).. Not looking that great :)
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I agree, Scuba and Adrenoline!
Moosie
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Adrenolin,
You would probably love to see some of the "display" ammunition I have. Some of the rounds I have were created by major manufacturers 20+/- years ago but never released to the public.
You have some of that up here or back in FLorida?
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and here would be one of those reviews Moosie brought up. 100% completely useless review. Watermelons and onions. Still waiting for a JELLO test shot review..
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Sports/2014/02/07/Review-of-RIP-Ammo-Devastating-One-Shot-Protection-For-Women-With-CCWs
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Adrenolin,
You would probably love to see some of the "display" ammunition I have. Some of the rounds I have were created by major manufacturers 20+/- years ago but never released to the public.
You have some of that up here or back in FLorida?
The unique ammo? It's up here since I'll be in Delaware for quite a while.
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Adrenolin,
You would probably love to see some of the "display" ammunition I have. Some of the rounds I have were created by major manufacturers 20+/- years ago but never released to the public.
You have some of that up here or back in FLorida?
The unique ammo? It's up here since I'll be in Delaware for quite a while.
May have to check it out sometime if we get around that way. Lori said hi bye the way
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Scuba.. I completely missed that post! I like different and more obscure collections. Things people don't usually see. Not sure where you are but I'm in the Middletown/Odessa area.