Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
CCW Methods & Issues => New CCW Permit Holders => Topic started by: evilfij on January 27, 2015, 06:30:48 AM
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I am buying a house in Delaware (current PA resident; uncertain whether I will change my residency to Delaware or not as I am keeping my house in PA too) and part of the consideration is the ability to obtain a carry permit (I currently have PA and Utah as I work in Delaware).
Sorry if this has been asked before I searched and did not see any threads on it, but the application requests a social security number. This requirement was struck down in PA so I am inclined not to include it in my Delaware application.
Has anyone done this?
Link to PA case: http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/06D0225P.pdf
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My thoughts are, if your only connection to Delaware is you own a house here. Even though your job is in Delaware, your are still considered a PA. resident. Lots of people own "vacation homes" in Delaware. But their primary residence is out of state. They register there cars in their "home state". File Federal Taxes from a PA. address.
You cannot get a legal DECCW unless you have letters of reference from 5 people in the county you reside in, but you don't reside in a county in the State of Delaware. For any legal clarification, you will need to contact The Delaware Attorney Generals office. Better to be right than arraigned .
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I am buying a house in Delaware (current PA resident; uncertain whether I will change my residency to Delaware or not as I am keeping my house in PA too) and part of the consideration is the ability to obtain a carry permit (I currently have PA and Utah as I work in Delaware).
Sorry if this has been asked before I searched and did not see any threads on it, but the application requests a social security number. This requirement was struck down in PA so I am inclined not to include it in my Delaware application.
Has anyone done this?
Link to PA case: http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/06D0225P.pdf
Welcome to May Issue Delaware. In my opinion if they ask for the SSN and you fail to provide it, it will be rejected as incomplete. I don't like it either, but it is what it is.
You have Utah. They also request the SSN. Did you provide it?
As for your residency, if you get a Delaware drivers license then that will be prima facie evidence that you are a resident. In that case, your PA and Utah will no longer be valid here.
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I obtained my Utah permit before the decision in PA striking down the provision (or any court taking that position). I was not happy about it, but I did it.
I suppose I will take my chances and see what happens. Perhaps I will include a note as to why I am not including it. I was hoping someone else had experience in this matter. The logic of the ruling by the ED Pa is unassailable in my opinion and I presume would be followed by the District of Delaware (or by the Superior Court in the first instance).
I appreciate the heads up on the other issues. I was aware of them. I think it is ridiculous that one has to go without a permit for a period of months when moving. I also think it is crazy there is not nationwide CCW, but here is to hoping for someday.
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Delaware residents must have a Delaware CCDW license irregardless of reciprocity with other states. Reciprocity is for non-residents only. Consequently you may as a Pennsylvanian carry with a Utah even though PA licenses are not recognized here. This is a matter of law and not a court decision or AG ruling.
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Delaware residents must have a Delaware CCDW license irregardless of reciprocity with other states. Reciprocity is for non-residents only. Consequently you may as a Pennsylvanian carry with a Utah even though PA licenses are not recognized here. This is a matter of law and not a court decision or AG ruling.
I am aware of all that. Thank you again. I am simply asking about the unlawful practice of requiring applicants to submit an SSN in connection with a Delaware permit application and whether anyone has chosen not to submit it and with what result.
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I'm pretty sure most or all of the folks on this forum gave up their SSN without flinching.
In Delaware, they're looking for any excuse not to issue the CCDW; refusing to supply the requested info would be tempting fate, IMHO.
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Guaranteed.. You submit a Delaware CCDW Application without providing your SSN it will be denied. This will not change until it is removed from the application which will require a lawsuit.
Keep your PA residency, and your Utah permit will allow you to carry while in DE. If you wish to not submit your SSN then apply, wait for it to be denied and file a lawsuit like Michael Stollenwerk did in PA and see where it goes over the following couple years. Use Facebook, KickStarter, local De associations, etc to gain some funds for your cause to assist in any costs, if needed. Your Utah permit will see you through. If you win you can change your residency and apply right away as you'll no doubt have the references by that time.
While you're at it, file a lawsuit to allow a new resident who has a permit from another state we share reciprocity with to continue using it until the Delaware application has been either approved or denied.
If you win you'll be happy and many Delaware residents will applaud your actions. If you loose you can still be happy that you stood up for your ideals and many DE residents will still applaud your actions.
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Guaranteed.. You submit a Delaware CCDW Application without providing your SSN it will be denied. This will not change until it is removed from the application which will require a lawsuit.
Keep your PA residency, and your Utah permit will allow you to carry while in DE. If you wish to not submit your SSN then apply, wait for it to be denied and file a lawsuit like Michael Stollenwerk did in PA and see where it goes over the following couple years. Use Facebook, KickStarter, local De associations, etc to gain some funds for your cause to assist in any costs, if needed. Your Utah permit will see you through. If you win you can change your residency and apply right away as you'll no doubt have the references by that time.
While you're at it, file a lawsuit to allow a new resident who has a permit from another state we share reciprocity with to continue using it until the Delaware application has been either approved or denied.
If you win you'll be happy and many Delaware residents will applaud your actions. If you loose you can still be happy that you stood up for your ideals and many DE residents will still applaud your actions.
I agree with Adrenolin except that if you apply in Delaware you must be a Delaware resident. Your Utah will not see you through because as a Delaware resident you cannot have a Utah permit unless you first have Delaware. This is a Utah law as they will not issue to a resident of a state that has reciprocity with Utah unless you have that states resident license. This law was passed in Utah a couple years ago.
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The logic of the ruling by the ED Pa is unassailable in my opinion and I presume would be followed by the District of Delaware (or by the Superior Court in the first instance).
I appreciate the heads up on the other issues. I was aware of them. I think it is ridiculous that one has to go without a permit for a period of months when moving. I also think it is crazy there is not nationwide CCW, but here is to hoping for someday.
Districts do not have to follow other districts, and they often issue dramatically different rulings. As far as nationwide, so many states have so many different laws -- I can't see how it would ever get through.
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The logic of the ruling by the ED Pa is unassailable in my opinion and I presume would be followed by the District of Delaware (or by the Superior Court in the first instance).
I appreciate the heads up on the other issues. I was aware of them. I think it is ridiculous that one has to go without a permit for a period of months when moving. I also think it is crazy there is not nationwide CCW, but here is to hoping for someday.
Districts do not have to follow other districts, and they often issue dramatically different rulings. As far as nationwide, so many states have so many different laws -- I can't see how it would ever get through.
It is a federal law and Delaware and PA are in the same circuit so presumably even if delaware went the other way, the third circuit will resolve the split. I am currently working on figuring out if delaware falls into the privacy act exception for pre 1974 collection of SSNs. That is the last mental hurdle I have.
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The instructions(provided below) for filing the DECCW application is clear. You MUST fill out the application Complete. and on the application 6 lines down and to the right it asks SSN (Social Security Number).
http://courts.delaware.gov/forms/download.aspx?ID=33278
It does not say "if you want to" in the instructions.
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I will call the number on the application and ask. What is the number for? AG?
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The Federal Privacy Act of 1974 would be a good place to start checking. State agencies may request your SSN but they must disclose if it's required, how that information will be used, and the law that requires you to disclose your SSN. Generally, you cannot be denied a government service or benefit for failing to provide, UNLESS it is required by FEDERAL LAW. I don't believe DE CCDW permit application meets those requirements, but not sure how things would go if you objected. Only your attorney knows for sure.
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All numbers for Attorney General, Superior Court, Prothonatary, are listed in the front of the phone book under State Of Delaware.