Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
CCW Methods & Issues => General CCW Discussion => Topic started by: 29thInfantry on April 30, 2015, 02:59:01 AM
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Does any have any insight into how often open carry is practiced in DE? Just a curiosity I know a few customers that come into my store open carry and we let them my boss fully supports 2A.
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I do not know of any statistics on this, but I don't see anyone open carrying. You might be able to get more info from the Delaware open carry website. They have a forum like this one. See http://www.delawareopencarry.org
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I have seen more in the last year in Delaware than I have seen in my life. I saw 2 just in the last week.
While I certainly support it being legal, I think is a poor idea tactically especially in public areas like stores and malls. You are the first target.
I can see it in remote areas, woods etc.
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was just curious as to how many people actually practiced this I am getting ready to pick up my firearm and wanted to carry but wasn't sure of just how common it is. Does anyone know of any local businesses that have signs up for no guns allowed? I know my business allows open carry. If any of you smoke and are looking to quit and want to try out ecigs let me know I work at a local vape shop in peoples plaza. Know that your guns are allowed in our store.
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Signs don't carry force of law in Delaware. But if they ask you to leave, you must or you're trespassing.
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go to deloc.org you can find all and any info on that site.
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@29thInfantry: "Does anyone know of any local businesses that have signs up for no guns allowed?" I know I've seen signs at Waffle Houses. I'm pretty sure I've seen signs at the Christiana Mall. The no-carry post on this forum (http://deccw.com/index.php?topic=110.0 (http://deccw.com/index.php?topic=110.0)) says the mall is a no-carry location, so I think I'm correct on that.
@del elec: "Signs don't carry force of law in Delaware." I know that's the accepted wisdom; and I know HandGunLaw.us says that's the law in DE. But does anyone know of a statute, case, or any legal authority that actually says so? I haven't found legal support for this.
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I see guys come into the dealership where i work with guns on their hips sometimes. Maybe 3 times a year. Theres always a fellow employee who assumes theyre an "undercover cop"
I have to tell them no, thats actually legal in Delaware and if he was undercover he probably wouldnt have his weapon on display.
I guess its better people think youre an off duty cop then a maniac with a gun...
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Had a guy come to my yard sale last year open carrying. Wasn't bothered, as I was concealed carrying myself. I knew he had a gun, he didn't know I did too.
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@29thInfantry: "Does anyone know of any local businesses that have signs up for no guns allowed?" I know I've seen signs at Waffle Houses. I'm pretty sure I've seen signs at the Christiana Mall. The no-carry post on this forum (http://deccw.com/index.php?topic=110.0 (http://deccw.com/index.php?topic=110.0)) says the mall is a no-carry location, so I think I'm correct on that.
@del elec: "Signs don't carry force of law in Delaware." I know that's the accepted wisdom; and I know HandGunLaw.us says that's the law in DE. But does anyone know of a statute, case, or any legal authority that actually says so? I haven't found legal support for this.
See this case from last year especially around page 13. Open carry is certainly protected. http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?ID=202890
It was agreed by the court, the state and the plaintiff that Delaware IS an open carry state. This was the State Supreme Court and it was unanimous
Also note that concealed carry can only be restricted outside the home.
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Does any have any insight into how often open carry is practiced in DE? Just a curiosity I know a few customers that come into my store open carry and we let them my boss fully supports 2A.
Open carry is frowned upon in DE !
And If you think about it you can unknowingly make yourself a target !
http://koin.com/2014/10/07/man-practicing-open-carry-law-robbed-of-gun/ (http://koin.com/2014/10/07/man-practicing-open-carry-law-robbed-of-gun/)
I wouldn't want to advertise I have a weapon ;D they can find out the hard way - LOL ! ;)
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Does any have any insight into how often open carry is practiced in DE? Just a curiosity I know a few customers that come into my store open carry and we let them my boss fully supports 2A.
Open carry is frowned upon in DE !
And If you think about it you can unknowingly make yourself a target !
http://koin.com/2014/10/07/man-practicing-open-carry-law-robbed-of-gun/ (http://koin.com/2014/10/07/man-practicing-open-carry-law-robbed-of-gun/)
I wouldn't want to advertise I have a weapon ;D they can find out the hard way - LOL ! ;)
I agree about the tactics 100%. You are a target. But I do support the legality of open carry. Some though unfortunately do not have the $400 or so for an initial CCW.
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Does any have any insight into how often open carry is practiced in DE? Just a curiosity I know a few customers that come into my store open carry and we let them my boss fully supports 2A.
Open carry is frowned upon in DE !
And If you think about it you can unknowingly make yourself a target !
http://koin.com/2014/10/07/man-practicing-open-carry-law-robbed-of-gun/ (http://koin.com/2014/10/07/man-practicing-open-carry-law-robbed-of-gun/)
I wouldn't want to advertise I have a weapon ;D they can find out the hard way - LOL ! ;)
I agree about the tactics 100%. You are a target. But I do support the legality of open carry. Some though unfortunately do not have the $400 or so for an initial CCW.
You can get it for less then $400 but yes its a lot of money to shell along with have to buy the weapon itself. ::)
You can argue this situation back and forth but my preference is not to let anyone know I have a weapon on me ! ;D
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I agree. I was in a Burger King a month or so ago, and there was a patron open carrying. He was the subject of a lot of stares. I was concealed and standing right next to him in line, and no one paid any attention to me. I like it that way
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There are cheaper ways to get a CCW than $400.00. I spent $321.97 including 100 rounds of 9MM needed in course. I spent $135.00 on a special sale price offer at Marino's Tactical Solutions DECCW course. I spent $65.00 to file application, $69.00 SBI criminal background and prints, $30.00 Dover Post Ad, $22.97 for 100 rounds of ammo. That's $299.00 not counting ammo. This was just over 3 years ago.
Guys at Marino were great.
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If open carry was a commonly recgonized thing like in a wild west movie id do it too and probably would have skipped the permit. But not only that, a lot of the places i go where i feel like something bad could happen theres plenty of no gun signs anyway.
But the price does sting. Ive got about 400 wrapped up in mine and ive still got a few more months to wait
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As a self defense instructor of 10+ years I can tell people also look for victims mostly in condition white which my wife used to live her life in but no longer does not I feel sorry for the poor sap that ever puts her hands on her. It has come to light that carrying a gun would also not be a bad idea either with the way people have been acting and the fact that my boss has decided to put a store in the middle of a rich neighborhood and the ghetto and I carry large sums of money for him at times. I think if more of us carried openly it would make a difference even though I do like the idea of having a weapon on me and no one being able to see it. I am always armed with some sort of weapon either in or out of the house. I can see the point of people gawking at you when in open carry versus conceal carry which is the main reason i am going for my CCDW. Less attention drawn to you the better. But on the other hand the weapon being concealed could still make you a victim because someone didnt know you were carrying where as open carry would hopefully make someone think twice about trying anything brilliant. I find living my life in condition yellow makes life a little easier as you see the threat coming and can avoid it. I greatly appreciate everyones input on everything I have posted in this group. I look forward to my CCDW
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I am not an OC supporter. I believe in the element of surprise, I believe that OC makes you a target, and I believe the vast majority of OC is for political statements and/or call attention - both reasons to me are wrong reasons to carry a firearm to begin with.
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I am not an OC supporter. I believe in the element of surprise, I believe that OC makes you a target, and I believe the vast majority of OC is for political statements and/or call attention - both reasons to me are wrong reasons to carry a firearm to begin with.
I agree that tacticly it is a poor idea. I also think a lot of these are showing off saying "look at me, I've got a gun". Totally wrong reason to carry.
I believe it should be legal but in most cases concealed is the way to go.
Brininig a gun into the situation must be the last resort. When you open carry the gun is out there first. Bad idea.
Say some drunk doesn't like you carrying and wants to be a tough guy and take it away from you. If he is stronger and there is a chance he can take it, you might have to take action.
This situation would have been avoided if the guy never knew you were armed. We need to blend in and be the calm rational person.
Carrying a gun to make a political statement is a counterproductive and crazy idea.
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I agree Clarence. Too many people open carrying to "show off". Makes them feel big and bad. These people should never carry guns. But, then again, they may be open carrying because they know they can't get permits, due to something in their past. Could be drugs, drinking, anger management problems, domestic violence, etc.
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I agree Clarence. Too many people open carrying to "show off". Makes them feel big and bad. These people should never carry guns. But, then again, they may be open carrying because they know they can't get permits, due to something in their past. Could be drugs, drinking, anger management problems, domestic violence, etc.
I think there are a few that open carry because it is their right to do so with no malicious intent some don't feel the need to go through a process and be registered in a system. I do know a few that feel that way and harbor no malicious intent what so ever. Me I prefer to have that element of surprise and me and my friends have gotten into some heated debates on it.
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I think there are all kinds of reasons people choose to open carry, some good and some not so good.
For me, there are a whole bunch of reasons not to open carry -- most of them already listed in this thread -- so I don't do it.
As a group, CCDW carriers have a lot to lose if open carry becomes popular and more visible in Delaware. We enjoy a lot of freedoms that are denied in other states, including the legal right to walk past "NO GUNS" signs because they don't carry force of law. All that would change in a heartbeat if guys wearing camo started marching into Acme and Wal-Mart with slung AR-15's.
Let's hope that doesn't happen.
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I think those guys that already do it in states that it is legal to sling arms is ridiculous and when approached by police all they do is give them a hard time. I know it is your right to do so but why not make the interaction with police a good thing. At least talk to them let them know who you are more positive interactions with law enforcement will ease up the gun control laws. Maybe I am just being hopeful here but when I started training in the martial arts at a very young age and had a lot of live weapons in the car some of them staffs and spears so they were always up in the back window. Sometimes I would get stopped because they could see the weapons in the window we also trained outside open in the public eye so this always looked like a "gang" and we frequently got the police called on us. After the second or 3rd time they knew who we are and what we were doing out there. They would walk up to us with smiles on their faces and a good morning some of them even became students. Some people would stop take pictures sometimes join us for class from time to time the more we were there the more comfortable people were with having us there including the police department. So there is a situation where a negative was turned into a positive where this could also make obtaining a CCDW for law abiding citizens more common. I think a 50 state constitutional carry for all law abiding citizens would be a good thing.
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The whole thing IMO is just ridiculous, confrontational, making people to be uneasy. I wish there was a very affordable way to get a CCW so everyday abiding citizen could be able to get one.
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I think changing Delaware from a "May Issue" to a "Shall Issue" state would be a step in the right direction. But, remember, a person now restricted from concealed carry, for faults of their own, would still be restricted.
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Id be ok with a higher application fee if it moved the process along faster myself
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The shall issue would be a great step it is almost like they are trying to dissuade people with the May issue that want to get their permit it is a considerable amount of money do get his done but it is not all at once. I have had people say that it is really expensive and when I found out how much it really was i was confused I thought it was going to be twards the 1000 dollar range.
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... I have had people say that it is really expensive and when I found out how much it really was i was confused I thought it was going to be twards the 1000 dollar range.
My understanding of the $1000 figure is as follows:
Newspaper ad $40
Fingerprinting $69
Application $65
Class $150
Carry piece $450
Holster $65
Belts $50
Wardrobe (if IWB) $100
Total $989. YMMV
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Yeah I already wear fat boy pants from Kmart they have an insert of an elastic waistband I find they are more comfy and accommodate an IWB holster pretty nicely. Yes I am already practicing getting used to having the feeling of an IWB holster I am also getting an owb depending on my dress and how i feel for the day. Being a martial artist I already have come accustom to baggy but nice looking clothing. I guess some people just want to make excuses to open carry I know most of them just don't want to put out the money for it either because they believe the government is always watching them (conspiracy theorist) or they are just plain out hung up on OC. Couple have told me I am brilliant for going for me ccdw but you know what they say about opinions.
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The shall issue would be a great step it is almost like they are trying to dissuade people with the May issue that want to get their permit it is a considerable amount of money do get his done but it is not all at once. I have had people say that it is really expensive and when I found out how much it really was i was confused I thought it was going to be twards the 1000 dollar range.
Realistically, not too many people are getting turned down under our discretionary issue system. Those that are denied normally have a good shot during an appeal -- mainly as it shows a more serious intent.
The problem with stirring the pot to get "shall issue" is that it can EASILY bring about the patchwork system of enforceable signs and restricted areas (churches, medical facilities, and so forth). I've heard and seen other folks think that "shall issue" automatically gets them a permit, while discretionary issue is losing gamble. Again, if you're restricted because of PFAs, domestic violence, or whatever -- "shall issue" won't cure that ailment.
Also, although the cost may seem somewhat steep, it's not as bad as many states. Granted, the price jumped significantly when Delaware added the training requirement, but it's still not as bad as it could be.
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On the topic of Open Carry, Constitutional Carry, Shall Issue, May Issue, etc., my position is that the armed person should demonstrate a basic level of proficiency before being allowed to carry. Here why I say that. Although the DE Constitution has no qualifier -
Delaware Constitution Artlcle I
§ 20. Right to keep and bear arms.
A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and State, and for hunting and recreational use.
the US Constitution contains the phrase "A well regulated Militia, being necessary..."
US Constitution, 2nd Amendment
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
which implies a level of training that does not normally occur today. Back in the '50s and '60s, when a speaker asked the veterans in the audience to stand, almost every male above the age of 22 stood. I expect that back in 1791, when the Bill of Rights was added to the Constitution, that most man and many women were firearms proficient. Today, most of us have been careless swept by a muzzle handled by an incompetent wannabe. A lot of States now will issue a permit or do not require a permit for a person who doesn't know or practice the Four Gun Laws. Scary. Comments.
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On the topic of Open Carry, Constitutional Carry, Shall Issue, May Issue, etc., my position is that the armed person should demonstrate a basic level of proficiency before being allowed to carry. Here why I say that. Although the DE Constitution has no qualifier -
Delaware Constitution Artlcle I
§ 20. Right to keep and bear arms.
A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and State, and for hunting and recreational use.
the US Constitution contains the phrase "A well regulated Militia, being necessary..."
US Constitution, 2nd Amendment
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
which implies a level of training that does not normally occur today. Back in the '50s and '60s, when a speaker asked the veterans in the audience to stand, almost every male above the age of 22 stood. I expect that back in 1791, when the Bill of Rights was added to the Constitution, that most man and many women were firearms proficient. Today, most of us have been careless swept by a muzzle handled by an incompetent wannabe. A lot of States now will issue a permit or do not require a permit for a person who doesn't know or practice the Four Gun Laws. Scary. Comments.
I was brought up around guns and was always taught how to handle them safely I think fresh out of high school every american should have to at least complete basic military training. Or have some sort of gun course that is mandatory to graduate. I know basic made me grow up and since parents cant put their foot up their kids asses these days I think it would be a viable way to make mature young adults and we would have feces going on like in Baltimore and people stomping the American flag which infuriates me. They all need a good old fashioned @@@ whooping.
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Kids graduating high school today hardly know english, much less how to drive
At first i was kind of upset about taking a 6hr class that i probably wont learn much in and still have to pay a few hundred bucks for. But then when i seen some of the people in the class i see why its mandatory. I just wish we could have spent more time on the legal issues instead of teaching people who are holding a gun for the first time how to hold it
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I completely agree, every law abiding citizen who wants to carry / own a firearm should have basic training. The issue with this is cost, so some program by the government would need to be in place to provide assistance to those who cannot afford training.
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Those that cannot afford it send them to military basic 3 hots and a cot.
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I agree that everyone should have training. I have been shooting and have had guns for 40+ years. I thought that I would just sit there and do the training because I had to.
I have to say that I really got a lot out of the training. I would actually like to do a refresher course sometime.
That being said, bearing arms is a right. I do not believe that training, permits or any restrictions on where we carry should or can be a matter of law. We need to be responsible for our own actions. Period.
Look at other states that have no requirement for a license or training open or concealed. Have they lapsed into chaos? Vermont has never required any type of license open or concealed.
Pennsylvania right next door has over a million carry licenses out there with no training required. Over 10% of the adult poplulation and the problems have been minimal.
Again: I am for training 100%. But I believe there should no infringement by government.
I would also be in favor of firearms safety including live fire at the high school level. This could be an elective and paid for by fundraisers and donations ( not tax money)
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Firearms training in public school is basically "if you see a gun, dont touch it and tell an adult" done
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Firearms training in public school is basically "if you see a gun, dont touch it and tell an adult" done
that would be the NRA Eddie Eagle program for elementary school children.
Big cities teach: " See a gun, call 911"
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Before I got my CCW permit I open carried all the time in Sussex county. I went in to Lowes, restaurants, pretty much everywhere and everyone was cool with it. I have short hair and keep my shirts tucked in, and carry glocks, so I think everyone just assumed I was law enforcement. I rigged up a holster to go on my dash so I was legal if I got pulled over.
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Whenever someone walks into my job OC all my co workers just assume "he must be an undercover cop"
Obviously id make no effore to impersonate a cop but youre probably better off if people think you are then a regular civilian
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I have to agree with Clarence and while I believe if you own a firearm you should have some training, I don't think it should be a requirement. I'm also fully in support of firearm training and shooting clubs in public schools... again.
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@del elec: "Signs don't carry force of law in Delaware." I know that's the accepted wisdom; and I know HandGunLaw.us says that's the law in DE. But does anyone know of a statute, case, or any legal authority that actually says so? I haven't found legal support for this.
@ChrisCar - My understanding is that since there is no law that makes signs have the force of law - they don't. In the absence of a law specifically regulating an activity, there is no law governing that activity... That is the way this issue has been explained to me.
On that note - while looking through the law trying to find an answer, I noticed that I could not seem to find the section that lists places where firearms are prohibited (parks, etc.). Am I missing it somehow? I looked through all of 1441, and glanced over 1442 all the way to 1460. Where can I find those restrictions?
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The places listed that are prohibited are in different sections of the code. The guy at www.handgunlaw.us has compiled a list on the Delaware link:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/delaware.pdf
It starts at the bottom of page 3.
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My understanding is that since there is no law that makes signs have the force of law - they don't. In the absence of a law specifically regulating an activity, there is no law governing that activity... That is the way this issue has been explained to me.
I think this is what you are referring to.
Title 11, Part I, Chapter 2. General Provisions Concerning Offenses
§ 202. All offenses defined by statute.
(a) No conduct constitutes a criminal offense unless it is made a criminal offense by this Criminal Code or by another law.
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My understanding is that since there is no law that makes signs have the force of law - they don't. In the absence of a law specifically regulating an activity, there is no law governing that activity... That is the way this issue has been explained to me.
I think this is what you are referring to.
Title 11, Part I, Chapter 2. General Provisions Concerning Offenses
§ 202. All offenses defined by statute.
(a) No conduct constitutes a criminal offense unless it is made a criminal offense by this Criminal Code or by another law.
Thanks Hawkeye. Excellent of you to find and post that vital law.