Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
CCW Methods & Issues => New CCW Permit Holders => Topic started by: Kh5249 on December 20, 2015, 09:06:32 PM
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I have been a resident of Delaware for about two years and have applied for a CCW. In 2001, I received a conviction of possession of switchblade in Los Angeles county, where I am from. I paid a fine.
Do you believe this will prevent or hinder me from getting a CCW issued in Delaware? Thanks in advance.
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Switchblades are illegal in Delaware. That being said, since it's been 14 years ago and, I am assuming , a low level crime with no time served, you may be ok. But there is only one way to make sure. Call The Attorney Generals Office in your county (NC/Kent/Sussex) and ask them. Don't be afraid to go to the horses mouth. They will be the people that make that decision. If you apply without checking and get turned down, you do not get your money back. Then your only thing to do would be to appeal it, at additional expense. Phone calls are free.
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Since it says you HAVE applied, you'll know in about 6 months.
Since it was so long ago, I think you will be ok.
Keep us informed please.
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Good luck KH5249. Hope all goes well for you. I think this example shows you are trying to do the right thing this time, by getting the proper permit before protecting yourself.
I prefer "automatic" knife. Doesn't sound as sinister as switchblade. Although, as SturmRuger mentioned, illegal in DE either way.
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Thanks for the guidance, all. Ya, it was 14 years ago and literally 17 days post my 18th birthday. At the time, my father was a police officer in neighboring Long Beach, but I declined to seek his help in "getting me out of it," which he very well could have. Looking back, I wished I had because this offense has been hanging over my head in one form or another since.
If I do get denied, my defense to the judge will be that I have had no run-ins with the law since - besides a few speeding tickets - and have served in the army, honorably discharged, have earned a bachelors and two master degrees, and am an HR Manager at a large multinational company. Hopefully, that will be enough.
Not for nothing, but I did get it expunged in California.
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NCC
Submitted 12/23
Received Permit 2/18
Not too bad considering my aforementioned circumstances and that I have only lived in Delaware 16 months - with 3/5 references only knowing me 2 years. None of which were called.
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You said it was expunged, so legally it did not happen and should not show up. In any case I'm sure you feel like a weight has been lifted. Congradulations.
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A MAJOR WEIGHT! However, although it was expunged at the county level in Los Angeles and reflects so in the Los Angeles county database (I checked), my FBI background check still lists the conviction and the sentence. I know this because I ran my FBI background check via digital fingerprints out of curiosity last month.
Before I expunged it, my FBI background check listed the charge with no conviction. AFTER I expunged it, it listed the disposition with conviction/sentence. I thought that was strange since I was expecting to see some sort of language relating to dismissal or expunge, but instead it just listed the actual disposition! Whats the point of expunging if it wont appear on the FBI report?! I'm guessing because there is a law in California where they are required to expunge certain misdemeanors after x amount time contingent on no other convictions. Who knows.
In any event, I am certain that Delaware DOJ saw it. It's funny actually, I submitted my Florida BEFORE my Delaware and Florida is YET to have issued me one BECAUSE of this brilliant switchblade conviction. I called Florida and asked what gives and they told me that they are trying to verify that the conviction on my FBI background check is a misdemeanor or felony - since it does not specify it, only the charge and Penal Code. Give me a break!!! It didn't take the investigator in Delaware that long to verify it, and all you have to do is look up the California Penal Code that was listed to easily verify that it's a misdemeanor. Come'on Florida. That's gotta be a record, right? NCC issues me before Florida? lol.
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Have you had a problem with the NICS check when buying a gun?
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Never. The initial time I bought a gun, it took about 35 minutes. From thereafter, the NICS check is only a few minutes.
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But the real burn is that although I now have my Delaware CCW, it appears that I will be unable to obtain a non-resident PA. Why you ask? Because it appears that they will do a PICS check on me in Lancaster and will see the switchblade conviction in California. And since ridiculous, "shall-issue" Pennsylvania adds several more firearm ownership requirements under PA 6105 on top of the Federal requirements, I doubt they'd grant me it. Although I can own and carry in my own state! The switchblade conviction falls under PA 6105, 908. And many of the crimes that fall under those PA statutes are not firearm-ownership showstoppers federally or in any other state. Thanks, PA. >:(
It looks like my workaround to carry concealed in PA is attempt to get a non-resident New Hampshire, which has reciprocity.
Any thoughts?
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The PICS check for any convictions outside of PA will mirror the federal NICS check. You have already passed this. In addition you stated it was expunged so should not be an issue. If you fail PA then you should appeal.
I doubt that Lancaster will invoke the character clause for an old expunged thing like a switchblade. I would go for it.
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It's true. It is expunged. But the only systems that reflect this are LA County and California DOJ, which I have documents on. However, my FBI background still reflects conviction and sentence.
It could be that California DOJ didn't provide all the information to the FBI, but I doubt that because before it was expunged, my FBI record just showed the charge, and about 30 days after it was expunged several years later, the FBI report updated and showed the conviction now too.
Suppose I do go after the PA CCW, can I legally answer "no" the question where it asks about convictions under or relating to PA 6105? Sure, it's expunged, but it's not like the FBI record is reflecting that...
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Do you have any documentation that it was expunged?
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Yes. Documentation from LA County Superior Court stating a dismissal.
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I would guard that paper. A dismissal is not a conviction. You should be OK but I am not a lawyer.
Pennsylvania is known to arrest people who lie on the 4473 form. You have the evidence that it was dismissed and you should answer NO. However the PICS system may flag you as a "prohibited offensive weapon" is a class A misdemeanor in Pennsylvania and because it carries a maximum of 5 years imprisonment would mean a lifetime ban on firearm ownership if the conviction occurred in Pennsylvania. In the case of a carry license, PA would deny a license. The same goes with any drug conviction.
Is there any way to get Los Angeles to correct this with the NCIC?
Another thing would be to contact gunlawyer101 on the Pennsylvania Firearms Owners board.
If it were me, I would try to fix this before I applied
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That's absolutely ridiculous that they would categorize possession of a switchblade in the same realm as other weapons and consequently have such a harsh penalty when every other state in the union classifys possession of a switchblade independently and exclusively as a low-rent misdemeanor and the typical max sentence is a 500 dollar fine or about as it was with me in LA County. (Site and release).
Forget that rig-a-mah-roll... I'll simply go for my NH that has reciprocity with PA.
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Greatly appreciate the advice nonetheless.
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The only reason switchblades were added to the prohibited list in many states was to add charges for gang members. As usual the law collects many non-affiliated in its net.
I still cannot believe switchblades are ever considered more dangerous than a pocket knife. Ironically, everyone I met in southern cal had a switchblade collection. Usually Mexican fabrication but very nice.
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I've always considered switchblades more of a novelty. The mechanism doesn't lead to the best blade lock-up. I'd prefer a frame lock, or ultimately a fixed blade (ultimately my .45😀). Some of the Microtechs are quite nice though. Expensive too. I have a couple of BenchMade "throwers", and an Italian Stilleto. Delaware illegality aside, I would never be carry them for defense. JMO.
Cheers!
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Was never into switchblades however I used to carry an automatic "out the front" (OTF) knife at one time before moving to Delaware. Regardless of what the government wants people to believe they are extremely safe. Much more then any folding blade. Single hand operation allows the blade to open and close safely away from hands and fingers.. a very common folding knife injury. Most OTFs are made with enough 'power' to open the blade but will NOT penetrate a persons body unless already opened and used as any other blade. Most would only just barely break the skin of your hand if attempted.
I used it as a daily utility knife mostly. Also carried one with my EMS gear back years ago. I believe Emergency and LEOs in Delaware may be permitted to use them in their gear though not 100% sure on that.
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I saw a guy get denied a permit because he had a conviction for pos. of a knife conviction. The knife was over the limit and concealed. He appealed and tried to explain to the judge that he was not doing anything violent with the knife and no charges of a violent nature were ever filed against him, however the judge was not moved because as he explained it did not matter, it is having the knife that was illegal, not what he did or didn't do with it.
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Knives that are Banned in Delaware
Balisong knives are legal. (Also know and butterfly or batasong knives)
Bowie knives and other large knives are legal.
Disguised knives like belt knives, lipstick knives, and cane knives are legal.
Throwing knives are legal.
Stilettos, dinks and daggers are legal.
Knives that will not set off metal detectors and have a point tip are illegal.
Knives with brass knuckles are illegal.
Switchblades and gravity knives are illegal.
Throwing stars are illegal.
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Automatic knives such as OTFs (out the front) are sadly also illegal even though they are much safer then a folding knife. I'd order another quality OTF in a heartbeat if they were legalized here. Not sure how DE classifies them but most states diff them from the common switchblade.