Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
State News & Gun News => Delaware News => Topic started by: muleman88 on April 04, 2018, 10:48:57 AM
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I seen this morning in the news urinal there’s a town hall meeting set up by politicians 2-D 2-R April 16th 6:30-8:30. Seats 750 people 1st come first serve. Anyone attending? After reading it certainly looks to be leaning on the left side. Then the last paragraph states De law prohibits anyone in attendance from carrying a firearm , even with a permit?? Since when is school carry with a permit illegal ?
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I seen this morning in the news urinal there’s a town hall meeting set up by politicians 2-D 2-R April 16th 6:30-8:30. Seats 750 people 1st come first serve. Anyone attending? After reading it certainly looks to be leaning on the left side. Then the last paragraph states De law prohibits anyone in attendance from carrying a firearm , even with a permit?? Since when is school carry with a permit illegal ?
The newspaper’s statement (https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/politics/2018/04/03/delaware-legislators-debate-gun-violence-issues-april-16-public-forum/482120002/) that concealed carry in schools is prohibited by DE law is wishful thinking.
I received this vis e-mail from the DE Deputy AG back in March this year.
As luck would have it, Sean Lugg responded as I was typing this. He seconds my analysis above, and confirms that §1457 (http://delcode.delaware.gov/title11/c005/sc07/index.shtml#1457)does not bar concealed carry by permit holders in schools, even though individual schools have the authority to do so. As you know, many schools ban all firearms, actually all weapons of any kind, and some even deploy metal detectors to enforce that prohibition. I would think it would be prudent to ask about the policy before entering.
If you are asked to leave and don’t, you are trespassing. Quick analysis on school carry: in §1457 the applicable underlying offense is §1442 which is carrying without a concealed carry permit. Therefore, we can carry unless asked to leave. Fed law allows state permit holder to carry.
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And therein lies the beauty of “concealed” carry.
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I've been thinking about the same thing myself.
Title 11, Chapter 5 states this:
§ 1442 Carrying a concealed deadly weapon; class G felony; class D felony.
A person is guilty of carrying a concealed deadly weapon when the person carries concealed a deadly weapon upon or about the person without a license to do so as provided by § 1441 of this title.
The underline is my emphasis. To be guilty of section 1442, you must both conceal the weapon and lack the license. If you do not have a weapon, clearly you cannot be in violation of section 1442. Likewise, if you have the license, as provided in section 1441, you are also not in violation of 1442.
Further down, Title 11 also states this:
§ 1457 Possession of a weapon in a Safe School and Recreation Zone; class D, E, or F felony; class A or B misdemeanor.
(a) Any person who commits any of the offenses described in subsection (b) of this section, or any juvenile who possesses a firearm or other deadly weapon, and does so while in or on a "Safe School and Recreation Zone" shall be guilty of the crime of possession of a weapon in a Safe School and Recreation Zone.
(b) The underlying offenses in Title 11 shall be:
(1) Section 1442. — Carrying a concealed deadly weapon; class G felony; class D felony.
(2) ...other offenses
I've snipped the rest of the offenses in subsection (b). You should go read them yourself to make sure you aren't planning to violate any of them. They include items such as destructive weapons, switchblade knives, knuckles-combination knives, martial arts throwing stars, and other unpleasant things. The part that concerns me is the first offense outlined in subsection (b). It is "carrying a concealed deadly weapon", as defined in section 1442. Well, we've already established that you are not in violation of 1442 if you possess a valid license as provided by section 1441. Of course, we also need to remember the "enforcement" part of "law enforcement". If the police show up, they are not "law interpretation". That job is left for the judge in court, and he or she may not read Title 11 the same way as I.
As others have already stated, if the representatives of the establishment (whether it be a school, the Christiana Mall, or any other self-professed "gun free" zone) request that you leave the premises, it is highly recommended that you do so respectfully and immediately. Don't get yourself caught up in a trespassing charge.
You should review Title 11 yourself. Here is a convenient link:
http://delcode.delaware.gov/title11/c005/sc07/ (http://delcode.delaware.gov/title11/c005/sc07/)
I'm not a lawyer, your mileage may vary, and these are trained professionals. Kids, don't try this at home.
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It’s the trespassing charge that they’ll get the mileage out of, and the resisting arrest charge that comes when you try to explain that you are perfectly within your rights to have the weapon. However, based on the news, because you are armed or thought to be armed, that’s when they’ll shoot you 27 times.
So, my thoughts are — if you see metal detecting devices, that’s when you need to pay attention. If you have to go through a cattle chute, that’s the real problem. If they are selectively wanding people, you have to consider whether or not you’re wearing a “... from my cold, dead hands...” t-shirt.
But, you’re basically right. You could still take a ride that night, but then be released without even being charged — once they find someone that can read.
And one other thing — open-carrying while having a permit would arguably be permissible, but that’s just a lightening rod for trouble. First off, The News Journal will be on you like white-on-rice, taking pictures of you — and that’s when the attention will shift, and people will cry about needing a safe space to go to, and so forth...
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I'll see if Radnor wants to ride down........ Is that the school off 299??
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I'll see if Radnor wants to ride down........ Is that the school off 299??
yes I do believe the New high school is on 299.
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I'll see if Radnor wants to ride down........ Is that the school off 299??
Sure, I'll skip action pistol for this event.
Since they said our guns are not welcome I CAN see them setting up metal detectors (for the safety of our elected officials).
I know what the law says and concealed means concealed, but it's difficult to get around that little booth.
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it's funny that i made a post about not caring about having my gun on me while driving in NJ, and people flipped out on me, but here are some crying cause they're told not to carry on school property. one side or the other, pick one.
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it's funny that i made a post about not caring about having my gun on me while driving in NJ, and people flipped out on me, but here are some crying cause they're told not to carry on school property. one side or the other, pick one.
1 is legal 1 is not .
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my safety comes first
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it's funny that i made a post about not caring about having my gun on me while driving in NJ, and people flipped out on me, but here are some crying cause they're told not to carry on school property. one side or the other, pick one.
I don't see one side or the other. Every situation is shades of grey. I reserve the right to pick and choose depending on my attitude that day and time. That being said Jersey and Maryland are sore spots every day.
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my safety comes first
I don’t think that anyone is questioning your safety. The problem is that you are looking at two different jurisdictions with two completely different sets of laws. In one, you have an argument to make that will most likely result in no charges or at least no conviction. In the other, well, you’d just be their latest poster-child for the “we got another bad guy with a gun off of the streets” campaign.
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right now, with the way things are they think anyone with a gun is a bad guy. we are safe for now in this state, but change is coming. don't be so sure about tomorrow
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This whole gun thing boils down to one thing. the Left-Wing, Socialist/Communist have been trying to take over America for almost a 100 years. What's stopping them? An armed Citizenry. The Jews were disarmed back in the 30's and it cost 6 million of them their lives.
You can talk all you want about you little anti-gun groups walking around with signs and shouting brilliant little chants. But the big picture is what they really want. A disarmed citizenry with them in charge and America would be like any other Socialist/Communist/ Dictator regime. Stopping Hillary went a long way to stopping that. She has been a Pro-Communist person nearly her whole life. A real fan of Communist leaders, even worked for them years ago.
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right now, with the way things are they think anyone with a gun is a bad guy. we are safe for now in this state, but change is coming. don't be so sure about tomorrow
Oh yeah, no argument from me on that. I just posted something else that’s along the same thought.
As far as the first part of your comment, that’s the idea that they love to portray on television. ALL guns are bad, and anyone that has one is violent and mentally unstable, responds to all questions by pointing a gun, is married to his or her sibling, and rapes chickens.
The paper follows along with that, and then it all rolls downhill from there.
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and i agree, but so far i see lots of people marching in the streets against us, but when we are asked to do the same the first request is, don't bring your guns, it will show we're bad people. have seen a few protest's with people and their guns, but not as much as the other side. maybe someday we'll all come together instead
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and i agree, but so far i see lots of people marching in the streets against us, but when we are asked to do the same the first request is, don't bring your guns, it will show we're bad people. have seen a few protest's with people and their guns, but not as much as the other side. maybe someday we'll all come together instead
My buddy and I talk A LOT about what has happened in the last six months or so. I mean, around that time, we were looking at the reciprocity stuff slowly moving forward, the “suppressor” stuff slowly moving forward, and in general — everythng moving forward. Forward enough to pass? Who knows. But in the last few months, someone has flushed the toilet on us.
Now we have everyone listening to the little Tide_Pod-eating, condom-snorting idiots — the ones not smart enough to know that they are marching to give away our rights.
We’ll see.
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This comes from the Appoquinimink School District Student Code of Conduct 2017-2018. So if any of you young men are attending are students of the Appo District, there will be consequences.
DANGEROUS INSTRUMENT(S) POSSESSION/CONCEALMENT/SALE (C0601 - C0626): The unauthorized possession/concealment/sale by a student in the school environment of any instrument, article or substance which is readily capable of causing serious physical injury or death orDEADLY WEAPON(S) POSSESSION/CONCEALMENT/SALE: Shall mean the possession, concealment, or sale of a deadly weapon in the school environment.
On my last visit to Middletown and Appo High Schools (a couple months ago), there were no metal detectors. Other than above, I couldn't find anything on the Appo School District about guns.
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This comes from the Appoquinimink School District Student Code of Conduct 2017-2018. So if any of you young men are attending are students of the Appo District, there will be consequences.
Hey, are we excluding the “young women” and the “young gender-non-conforming” — because we don’t want the people protesting against us to be inadequately prepared!!!
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This comes from the Appoquinimink School District Student Code of Conduct 2017-2018. So if any of you young men are attending are students of the Appo District, there will be consequences.
Hey, are we excluding the “young women” and the “young gender-non-conforming” — because we don’t want the people protesting against us to be inadequately prepared!!!
Yes we are. Women are to kind and gentle to get involved in shooting guns, and gender-non-conforming is just another way of saying "my parents screwed me up".
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I also think we should strive to change the language.
To oppose “gun control” arguments, the first approach is: Refuse to use their terms. As explained fully in the book, Death by “Gun Control,” the term “gun control” is Orwellian Newspeak that itself biases the debate. Therefore, we nearly always use the correct terms: “victim disarmament” or “citizen disarmament.”
We hear the argument: “How can you be against sensible gun laws?” The response is: “How can you favor disarming victims when the aggressors are armed?”
I found this article online. It was not credited to one individual, but to a group called JPFO Liberty Crew.
Four Key Points to Defend Your Rights
By JPFO Liberty Crew // 07/01/2007
I don't consider myself a victim, but for the sake of the "gun control" argument, I like the term "victim disarmament".
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This comes from the Appoquinimink School District Student Code of Conduct 2017-2018. So if any of you young men are attending are students of the Appo District, there will be consequences.
Hey, are we excluding the “young women” and the “young gender-non-conforming” — because we don’t want the people protesting against us to be inadequately prepared!!!
Yes we are. Women are to kind and gentle to get involved in shooting guns, and gender-non-conforming is just another way of saying "my parents screwed me up".
To kind and gentle, are you kidding. My wife served in the gulf war as a load master on C-5's. I bet she's a better shot than you are, whether it's shooting her AR-15 or her 6 inch 357 mag... you may want to re-write your statement.. Have you ever seen Julie Golob shoot, she's the captain of the Smith & Wesson team
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This comes from the Appoquinimink School District Student Code of Conduct 2017-2018. So if any of you young men are attending are students of the Appo District, there will be consequences.
Hey, are we excluding the “young women” and the “young gender-non-conforming” — because we don’t want the people protesting against us to be inadequately prepared!!!
Yes we are. Women are to kind and gentle to get involved in shooting guns, and gender-non-conforming is just another way of saying "my parents screwed me up".
To kind and gentle, are you kidding. My wife served in the gulf war as a load master on C-5's. I bet she's a better shot than you are, whether it's shooting her AR-15 or her 6 inch 357 mag... you may want to re-write your statement.. Have you ever seen Julie Golob shoot, she's the captain of the Smith & Wesson team
I stand by my statement...just don't tell your wife I said that...I bruise easily.
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This comes from the Appoquinimink School District Student Code of Conduct 2017-2018. So if any of you young men are attending are students of the Appo District, there will be consequences.
Hey, are we excluding the “young women” and the “young gender-non-conforming” — because we don’t want the people protesting against us to be inadequately prepared!!!
Yes we are. Women are to kind and gentle to get involved in shooting guns, and gender-non-conforming is just another way of saying "my parents screwed me up".
My wife humiliates men at the range with their own guns.
She's a Russian... her hometown was occupied and sacked by the Wehrmacht, so she understands why shooting is important.
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BUMP!
Just a reminder if you can make it.
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Interesting panel discussion by Atty Kathy Jennings, Sen DelCollo, Sen Townsend, and Sen Pettyjohn moderated by Matt Albright of the News Journal. Rowdy at times requiring Sen D to utter calming words. Discussed SB 163 assault weapons ban which was weakly defended by Sen T who tried to say that §20 of article I doesn’t say “shall not be infringed” while ignoring the sentence below which says “WE DECLARE THAT EVERYTHING IN THIS ARTICLE IS RESERVED OUT OF THE GENERAL POWERS OF GOVERNMENT HEREINAFTER MENTIONED.” Unfortunately no one brought that up. Atty J related tear jerking examples of gun shot victims. Also discussed HB 302 mental health which is much better than previous bills but still needs some tweaking. HB 300 Bump stocks is languishing in the House awaiting approval of Senate amendments. Plea bargaining was obtusely defended by Atty J as prosecutors are doing the best that they can. Sen P explained that statistics are skewed by situations where a gun is found in a car, all five occupants are charged, one person goes to trial and the other four charges are dropped. Sen P related that Indian River school district has armed constables (not police) who are a deterrent. Arming teachers was not explicitly addressed.
Spoke with the moderator afterwards about concealed carry in schools being legal. He encouraged me to write in about arming teachers while mentioning that @OGG’s letter was ‘most read’.
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Thought I saw you up on stage after the event.
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So after seeing all that was tal;ked about, what do you think will happen?
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The article in the Wed News Urinal made us sound like an unruly mob, as usual.
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The article in the Wed News Urinal made us sound like an unruly mob, as usual.
The paper’s description made it sound like a typical Liberal rally, except there was no mention of car-flipping, fires, or other general destruction!
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It's the urinal what did you expect?
BOTH sides clapped for what they agreed with.
We were just the majority in the building and at times became vocal too.
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The article in the Wed News Urinal made us sound like an unruly mob, as usual.
Same reporter, Scott Goss, who incorrectly stated the concealed carry is prohibited in DE schools. (That final paragraph has since been deleted.) I sent this email.
Scott,
I expect reporters to be factual while not injecting their personal biases into the report. Your model should be Heinlein’s Fair Witness.
You inject your own feelings in the second paragraph with this hyperbole.
“The roughly 700 who attended the two-hour "Community Conversation on Gun Violence" got in as many words as the two Democrats and two Republicans on stage...” Maybe a quarter as many words as Kathy Jennings but clearly not as you insinuate.
Regrettably this sentence is true “The crowd cheered, booed and often heckled the speakers.” But the crowd responded to Sen DelCollo calming words.
Additionally, you are the author of the Town Hall announcement piece where you incorrectly said that concealed carry is prohibited by Delaware law. Ask Matt for the proof that you are wrong.
In the future, I will be checking to see if you are the author of any reporting piece [and] consider your veracity.
Here the link to the Pro-gun crowd takes over Delaware gun-control debate (https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/politics/2018/04/17/delaware-politicians-debate-gun-control-heated-roundtable/522349002/)
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it's on the table today, looking forward to the result. although either way, life goes on