Delaware Concealed Carry Forum

State News & Gun News => Delaware News => Topic started by: Cbmarine on April 14, 2018, 06:47:40 AM



Title: HB 375 Large capacity mags (>10 rds) illegal in public places
Post by: Cbmarine on April 14, 2018, 06:47:40 AM
Another try at preventing mass shootings. Maryland redux.

AN ACT TO AMEND TITLE 11 OF THE DELAWARE CODE RELATING TO PROHIBITED CONDUCT IN CONNECTION WITH LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINES. (http://legis.delaware.gov/BillDetail?LegislationId=26474)
This Act prohibits the manufacture, sale, purchase, transfer, or delivery of large-capacity magazines, which are defined as ammunition feeding devices with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. In acknowledgment that thousands of law-abiding Delawareans currently possess large-capacity magazines lawfully, this Act makes such possession unlawful only if it occurs in a public place while in possession of a firearm capable of accepting it. Possession of a large-capacity magazine in areas that are not public places remains legal and this Act permits the possession and use of large-capacity magazines at shooting ranges. A violation of this Act is a class A misdemeanor for a first offense and a class G felony for any subsequent offense.


Title: Re: HB 375 Large capacity mags (>10 rds) illegal in public places
Post by: MarkB on April 14, 2018, 06:21:51 PM
This sound very much like I can keep the mags at home but I can't take them to a shooting range because I have to pass through "public places" to get to the range.  I'll be fine at the range but not between my home and the range.


Title: Re: HB 375 Large capacity mags (>10 rds) illegal in public places
Post by: Cbmarine on April 14, 2018, 07:44:53 PM
Bill Details (http://legis.delaware.gov/BillDetail?LegislationId=26474)
Introduced on: 4/12/18
Primary Sponsor: Mitchell
Additional Sponsor(s): Sen. Townsend
Reps. Longhurst, Schwartzkopf, Heffernan, Kowalko, Lynn
Co-Sponsor(s): Sen. McDowell, Sokola
Reps. Baumbach, Bentz, Brady

House Judiciary Cmte  (http://legis.delaware.gov/CommitteeDetail?committeeId=459)Members (11)
Chair: John L. Mitchell
Vice-Chair: Melanie George Smith
Members:
Charles Potter Jr.
James Johnson
Gerald L. Brady
Sean M. Lynn
Trey Charles Paradee
William R. Outten
Stephen Smyk
David L. Wilson
Jeff N. Spiegelman


Title: Re: HB 375 Large capacity mags (>10 rds) illegal in public places
Post by: SturmRugerSR9 on April 15, 2018, 03:53:05 AM
This sound very much like I can keep the mags at home but I can't take them to a shooting range because I have to pass through "public places" to get to the range.  I'll be fine at the range but not between my home and the range.

I have another take on this. You can take your larger empty mags to the range to use. You just can't have them loaded in your gun.  Must have a 10  rounder in gun.


Title: Re: HB 375 Large capacity mags (>10 rds) illegal in public places
Post by: MarkB on April 15, 2018, 05:51:21 AM
It all depends on what the definition of "public spaces" is.  The bill says nothing about a loaded or unloaded mag.  Just possession of the mag and a gun that it will work in is enough for a conviction.  If the definition means a building then it's workable.  What about a parking lot of a store where a lot of the "public" can be present.  I assume that a public event, like a music concert, is also a "public space".  How about parks?  We need clarification of the term "public spaces".  Concealed carry is still permitted in "public spaces" but only with a 10 round or less mag.


Title: Re: HB 375 Large capacity mags (>10 rds) illegal in public places
Post by: Cbmarine on April 15, 2018, 07:39:05 PM
Regarding transportation of large capacity mags, there is no exception listed.  In the SB 163 assault wepons bill, the Exceptions subpara d(3) (https://legis.delaware.gov/json/BillDetail/GeneratePdfDocument?legislationId=26410&legislationTypeId=1&docTypeId=2&legislationName=SB163) lists conditions necessary for transport to the shooting range.


Title: Re: HB 375 Large capacity mags (>10 rds) illegal in public places
Post by: MarkB on April 15, 2018, 09:06:41 PM
This bill references section 1460(b)(3) as the definition of "public place".

The section reads:

"(3) "Public place" means a place to which the public or a substantial group of persons has access and includes highways, transportation facilities, schools, places of amusement, parks, playgrounds, restaurants, bars, taverns, and hallways, lobbies and other portions of apartment houses and hotels not constituting rooms or apartments designed for actual residence."


So, basically, you can own a large cap mag but you can't use it because taking it out of your house will violate the law.  In my opinion this involves a "taking" by the State of Delawarebecause they have "taken" my use of my property without any compensation.


Title: Re: HB 375 Large capacity mags (>10 rds) illegal in public places
Post by: Radnor on April 16, 2018, 05:06:15 AM
How about if we email/call our elected people and ask for an amendment excluding ccdw holders.

I am going to email Speigleman (he's not my Representative but PRO-2A).


Jeff,

Hope this finds you well.

Is it possible to place an amendment with the Bill EXCLUDING CCDW holders?
I don't think we (CCDW holders) are the problem they are going after but we're
being included.

Your thoughts please.

THANK YOU for keeping up the fight!!!!!

Radnor


Title: Re: HB 375 Large capacity mags (>10 rds) illegal in public places
Post by: oldgraygeek on April 16, 2018, 05:47:22 AM
How about if we email/call our elected people and ask for an amendment excluding ccdw holders.

I am going to email Speigleman (he's not my Representative but PRO-2A).


Jeff,

Hope this finds you well.

Is it possible to place an amendment with the Bill EXCLUDING CCDW holders?
I don't think we (CCDW holders) are the problem they are going after but we're
being included.

Your thoughts please.

THANK YOU for keeping up the fight!!!!!

Radnor

Can we add that to the ban on so-called "assault weapons" too?


Title: Re: HB 375 Large capacity mags (>10 rds) illegal in public places
Post by: MarkB on April 16, 2018, 05:59:52 AM
I sent this email to my Representative, Steve Smyk.


Steve,

I trust all is well with you.

Once more I am requesting your help.   HB375 Large Capacity Magazine Ban does allow legal owners of those magazines to possess them if they had them before the law becomes effective.  It does not allow the owner to take them out of the house to transport to and use at a shooting range.  Under the definition used for "public places" even highways are considered "public places" so it will be illegal to transport to a range and here is no provision to allow use of the magazine at the shooting range.

Please see if you can add an amendment to the bill to allow transport to and use of the large capacity magazines at a shooting range.

If that is not possible, please add an amendment  that exempts all concealed permit holders from the bill.  Delaware has already thoroughly investigated and approved all concealed weapon permit holders and the permit holders have an extremely low record of violations.

I do believe that lack of a use provision and the inability to take a large capacity magazine out of your house makes this bill unconstitutional by the "taking" of the use of the lawful magazines.

Steve, I thank you again for all your help and support for the Right To Keep And Bear Arms.

Sincerely,

MarkB


Title: Re: HB 375 Large capacity mags (>10 rds) illegal in public places
Post by: Radnor on April 16, 2018, 06:31:22 AM
Can we add that to the ban on so-called "assault weapons" too?

Why not?

My thinking (scary I know) ....  They are trying to address a CRIME problem by just introducing bans
for all EXCEPT of course police (active AND retired) and military.  They are putting us in the class of
the criminals.  Everyone here KNOWS the hoops in getting our CCDW.  WE are NOT the problem.
So why not make an exception for us? 


Title: Re: HB 375 Large capacity mags (>10 rds) illegal in public places
Post by: Cbmarine on April 16, 2018, 07:57:57 AM
As @retcapt posted in a March thread  (http://deccw.com/index.php?topic=5333.0), The National Review reported  (https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/report-parkland-shooter-did-not-use-high-capacity-magazines/), the Parkland shooter used 10 round magazines. Has this been reported elsewhere in a major publication?

The 19-year-old school shooter who killed 17 in Florida on Valentine’s Day had 150 rounds of ammunition in 10-round magazines. Larger ones would not fit in his bag, Florida state senator Lauren Book revealed.

Update:
Florida State Senator Lauren Book (https://www.flsenate.gov/Senators/s32/?Tab=Personal), who represents Broward County, is a Democrat.  Refreshing honest.

The Sun Sentinel reports  (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-nikolas-cruz-left-180-rounds-20180302-story.html) that Cruz left 180 rounds in 30 round mags when he ran from the school.  
My question to "Sheriff" Israel, "which account is correct?"


Title: Re: HB 375 Large capacity mags (>10 rds) illegal in public places
Post by: RetCapt1994 on April 16, 2018, 08:57:11 AM
I reported this on all the emails and in all the phone calls I have made. Naturally the media will not report this. I sent a "special email" to Mitchell and Gov.Blarney. I indicated this fact about the FL shooter using 10rd mags. Naturally I did not get a reply. IMHO the thing the DemoRATS are a bit afraid of is the when "the attack on the 2nd A is even mentioned. They immediately say it is not. Well Sen.Carper said at a townhall in NNC that he likes the Australian control. We know that means a complete ban and confiscation. I have said this many times even before all this BS started. CCW Permit holders should be exempt from any mag or "assault weapon" (I hate this term). These men and women have already been vetted. What really gets me pissed is the fact that the failures of the complete system caused the FL shooting, Gifford shooting,VA Tech shooting and several others. When the media is on the other side it is hard to fight them.  Regards to everybody at deccw and folks that are just visiting.


Title: Re: HB 375 Large capacity mags (>10 rds) illegal in public places
Post by: topper on April 17, 2018, 11:46:28 AM
"assault weapon" (I hate this term).

I've heard some organization is recommending the term Modern Sporting Rifle (MSR) instead of assault rifle.


Title: Re: HB 375 Large capacity mags (>10 rds) illegal in public places
Post by: CorBon on April 17, 2018, 02:45:26 PM
"assault weapon" (I hate this term).

I've heard some organization is recommending the term Modern Sporting Rifle (MSR) instead of assault rifle.
That’s actually used quite a bit,  but I think that an even better choice is — “rifle”.  The problem with giving them anything is that they can twist it around. Just look at California with their bullet buttons, thumbholes, and so forth.

And this is a slippery slope, because once it becomes apparent that there isn’t any real difference between rifles, they’ll go back to their real goal — ban ‘em all.


Title: Re: HB 375 Large capacity mags (>10 rds) illegal in public places
Post by: MarkB on April 17, 2018, 05:25:23 PM
I had sent out an email to 22 members of the Senate and House yesterday.  My Representative, Steve Smyk, called me today.  We talked about the bills ans Steve asked that EVERYONE write their members of the House and Senate as well as others.  We need to overwhelm them.  He also asked that we flood the newspapers with letters against the bills.  He estimated that maybe one in five letters would be published but we need to try.   

He said he was talking to one of the NCC Reps and was asked why you need more than one gun?  Steve said that a gun is just a tool and different guns are used for different things.  Steve said have you ever tried to eat a squirrel that was shot with a shotgun?  The NCC Rep asked (a little horrified) why would you even eat a squirrel?  Steve said this shows just how much they live in a different world than us.

So, lets do what we can to get these bills defeated.