Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
State News & Gun News => Delaware News => Topic started by: sprue on January 11, 2022, 03:45:53 PM
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Firearms Policy Coalition has brought a case against the DE Attorney General over HB 125 (law banning self made firearms and sharing of 3D files)
You can follow the case here: https://www.firearmspolicy.org/rigby
As someone who uses design software every day and has a passion for firearms and accessories design I really hope this lawsuit proves successful. 2022 was supposed to be the year I start making AK and Glock accessories.
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I like that someone is doing it, but not holding my breath...
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The most recent letter (2/14) in response to the evidence put forward to by the state about the ban is absolutely awesome. I'm lovin' it
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We won! The judge struck it down.
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Soooo,,,, link?
Seems like some, but not all? My scatterbrained got lost
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https://www.firearmspolicy.org/fpc-victory-federal-judge-blocks-delaware-ban-on-self-built-firearm-possession-home-manufacturing (https://www.firearmspolicy.org/fpc-victory-federal-judge-blocks-delaware-ban-on-self-built-firearm-possession-home-manufacturing)
Next to fall..... awb & mag ban?
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Soooo, my 80% AR's are legal, except that they are AR's, which are not legal in Delaware. Hope we get more Constitutional judges!!!
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Soooo, my 80% AR's are legal, except that they are AR's, which are not legal in Delaware. Hope we get more Constitutional judges!!!
It would be an interesting case for sure since they have no way of proving you did or didn't own them prior to the date of the law going into effect. Or if you registered one unserialized rifle with the state but you have 5 more identical lowers stashed away you've got an "I'm Spartacus" situation going on with your rifles. Would they even let us register an unserialized rifle?
This also means my dream of drilling AR pockets into a 2x4 can still come true.
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Next to fall..... awb & mag ban?
I haven't heard any news on this other than it was filed. Been hoping for an update.
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So now, i have to get scuba gear, and dive all those boat accident sites?
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Next to fall..... awb & mag ban?
I haven't heard any news on this other than it was filed. Been hoping for an update.
While we haven’t completely won yet, it’s not looking good for Kathy Jennings and King Karney as instead of dismissing the lawsuit as Jennings requested, a preliminary injunction was granted to stop enforcement of it pending a full court hearing. She did so because owners of these guns could be “irrevocably harmed” by being arrested for a crime that is “likely” unconstitutional.
A beautiful thing is the judge, Maryellen Noreika is a Democrat that Biden is hoping to elevate to the circuit court.
Here it is on AP:
https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiM2h0dHBzOi8vYXBuZXdzLmNvbS8zOWNjMmE0MzZiYTBkZjA5NGU5NDc0ZWJkOGQzZDc1ZNIBAA?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
It was also a top news item on WBOC-TV this morning.
Here is the order. ( ouch Kathy ). https://assets.nationbuilder.com/firearmspolicycoalition/pages/6315/attachments/original/1663969170/Rigby_v_Jennings_Order_on_MPI.pdf?1663969170
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It also looks legal to 3D print a gun or parts, as long as you don't share "code" with others, which I assume means an .stl file. A model is not code, so you could share a .sldprt or .inv file. And, show someone how to convert it to code. That's how I see it.
-Simon
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It also looks legal to 3D print a gun or parts, as long as you don't share "code" with others, which I assume means an .stl file. A model is not code, so you could share a .sldprt or .inv file. And, show someone how to convert it to code. That's how I see it.
-Simon
Delaware is a tiny state. You could drive outside it, hit send, and go home without breaking any laws.
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It also looks legal to 3D print a gun or parts, as long as you don't share "code" with others, which I assume means an .stl file. A model is not code, so you could share a .sldprt or .inv file. And, show someone how to convert it to code. That's how I see it.
-Simon
Delaware is a tiny state. You could drive outside it, hit send, and go home without breaking any laws.
Unfortunately, it's not that simple as then you'd have to watch out for what either Federal (i.e. 18 U.S.C. § 922) law or other non-Delaware law you would be running afoul of. Something else to watch out for is federal charges under the guise of using interstate commerce as a means of violating any other law. Bottom line when it comes to the quite touchy subject of anything gun regulation related BE CAREFUL. If in doubt, consult an attorney before doing anything. I'm happy to provide referrals, or if you have specific Delaware statute related questions, I'm happy to answer via PM.
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It also looks legal to 3D print a gun or parts, as long as you don't share "code" with others, which I assume means an .stl file. A model is not code, so you could share a .sldprt or .inv file. And, show someone how to convert it to code. That's how I see it.
-Simon
Delaware is a tiny state. You could drive outside it, hit send, and go home without breaking any laws.
Unfortunately, it's not that simple as then you'd have to watch out for what either Federal (i.e. 18 U.S.C. § 922) law or other non-Delaware law you would be running afoul of. Something else to watch out for is federal charges under the guise of using interstate commerce as a means of violating any other law. Bottom line when it comes to the quite touchy subject of anything gun regulation related BE CAREFUL. If in doubt, consult an attorney before doing anything. I'm happy to provide referrals, or if you have specific Delaware statute related questions, I'm happy to answer via PM.
Hmmm. Isn't that a bit like saying you can't travel out of state to get an abortion?
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Hmmm. Isn't that a bit like saying you can't travel out of state to get an abortion?
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My initial thought would be no because you are paying for a service provided in that state, no different than buying a pack of gum somewhere else if you are using it for your own means. Maybe you could meet in the legal state and receive the information there on a thumb drive and take it home or something
Sending something across state lines for profit would be the problem I guess. So I couldn't buy tax free cigarettes in delaware and drive them to NY and sell them sort of thing. Or maybe with the abortion reference, a doctor in a legal state couldn't perform the abortion via computer and robotics across a state line in an operating room in an illegal state
Maybe someone with better knowledge could chime in on that
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For your consideration and reference...most of these laws were passed by idiots that don't know what a firearm actually is and knew that their votes were unconstitutional to begin with. But they are still law until a court says they are not. One of the less understandable things about our government.
All of the democrats and some republicans, and way too many judges, are in regular violation of their oath of office, but we as voters only have one recourse, the ballot box. That oath seems to mean nothing to too many. The same oath I took when I was in the service. "Protect and defend the Constitution", not do your best to shred it. I listen to Joe suggest that the Constitution is not absolute, and my hair catches on fire. Yes, it can be changed, but not with the stroke of his pen.
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Well, I could be wrong- they might consider CAD models to be "code". If Autocad, for example, is built on code, and a designer is using that program to produce a 3-d model, is the model itself "code"? Now, that model is converted to code using another program called a slicer, and THAT would be "code" to run the printer. They need to clarify. I THINK you can share models, but not printer programs, if that makes any sense.
Simon
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Maybe abortion would be a bad example because it requires the involvement of another party. If you were, as a DE resident to travel to CO solely for the purpose of smoking weed (yeah federal laws but for the sake of argument bear with me) You wouldn't be violating any DE state laws. It feels a bit weird even to be arguing this with the existence of VPNs and whatnot to change your IP address to another region and the existence of some very prolific creators on various websites. DE residents can just google what they want without having to ask a buddy to break laws for them.
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Well, I could be wrong- they might consider CAD models to be "code". If Autocad, for example, is built on code, and a designer is using that program to produce a 3-d model, is the model itself "code"? Now, that model is converted to code using another program called a slicer, and THAT would be "code" to run the printer. They need to clarify. I THINK you can share models, but not printer programs, if that makes any sense.
Simon
The main thing is technology most of the time surpasses the ability of lawmakers to make laws. If you say the act of sharing the code or blueprints for a weapons part is illegal, but manufacturing it yourself is not (as the latest judge seemed to say), there are still scanners out there that will allow you to copy and make your own with nothing more than someone handing you the part to "look at"
It all boils down to probably the most elegant amendment also being the most shredded with laws. All while the ones who obey the laws most are the ones least likely to use them in nefarious ways
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Yes, but isnt texas abortions? If you go out of state, it counts.?
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If you were, as a DE resident to travel to CO solely for the purpose of smoking weed
Been there, done that, got the shirt!
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If you were, as a DE resident to travel to CO solely for the purpose of smoking weed
Been there, done that, got the shirt!
Did you know..
Delaware resident with medical mj card CAN get ccdw?
That was a question I asked the investor and was told YES they can.
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Just an FYI on this folks, I just got back from the courthouse where I had a hearing for a client of mine charged by the Feds with Felon in Possession of Ammunition. Operation Safe Streets (DSP, Delaware Probation and Parole, Wilmington PD, and New Castle County PD, and U.S. Homeland Security and DEA officers) picked up my client, a person prohibited under Delaware Title 11 and turned him over to the Feds for prosecution since he would face a stiffer sentencing guideline there. He was in possession of a handgun loaded with Winchester ammunition. The Federal agents exercised jurisdiction over him because the ammunition in the weapon that my client was carrying traveled through interstate commerce before coming into my client's possession. Just remember, there are squirelly things that can be done to get you jammed up in the criminal court system. I will again reiterate, be very careful when dealing with non serialized receivers.
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Just an FYI on this folks, I just got back from the courthouse where I had a hearing for a client of mine charged by the Feds with Felon in Possession of Ammunition. Operation Safe Streets (DSP, Delaware Probation and Parole, Wilmington PD, and New Castle County PD, and U.S. Homeland Security and DEA officers) picked up my client, a person prohibited under Delaware Title 11 and turned him over to the Feds for prosecution since he would face a stiffer sentencing guideline there. He was in possession of a handgun loaded with Winchester ammunition. The Federal agents exercised jurisdiction over him because the ammunition in the weapon that my client was carrying traveled through interstate commerce before coming into my client's possession. Just remember, there are squirelly things that can be done to get you jammed up in the criminal court system. I will again reiterate, be very careful when dealing with non serialized receivers.
Are you able to elaborate on that anymore? Was it the ammo type or the weapon that was the problem?
And were they pinched for the recent new delaware laws or the fed laws?
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He said it was the fact that he was a felon in possession. The maker of the ammo was germaine because for it to be a federal crime, the ammo must have moved in “interstate commerce”, the so called commerce clause in the constitution.
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He said it was the fact that he was a felon in possession. The maker of the ammo was germaine because for it to be a federal crime, the ammo must have moved in “interstate commerce”, the so called commerce clause in the constitution.
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For whatever reason I missed the word "felon" ::), thanks
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In that particular instance felon in possession sounds like both a federal and state crime so the question is about jurisdiction. Privately made firearms have always been legal on a federal level, and with the injunction they now continue to be legal at the state level. Recent ATF rules changes deal with the sale and distribution of receiver components so individuals building for personal use are not affected and are not doing anything illegal. The only issue you'd run into is if you tried to sell it. Then the state and ATF could argue over who gets to charge you.
Incidentally, a case involving a felon in possession of a firearm with an obliterated serial number was just ruled in the defendant's favor because at the time of the founding there were no laws governing serialization of firearms. He still got hit with the prohibited person charge though.
Bottom line is that it's going to be much harder for the state to turn law abiding people into criminals now.
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Bottom line is that it's going to be much harder for the state to turn law abiding people into criminals now.
I would say it's going to be more difficult to keep the law abiding in prison because let's face it, bad states will still try to navigate around scotus rulings with new laws until the lawsuits come around in the person's favor. And we see that in the blue states right now
You would hope state legislatures see the writing on the wall and either do nothing with new proposed laws and/or void current ones
I know I wouldn't want to be the one that tries to take a newly illegal firearm to a different state for target practice just to be pulled over in possession once I cross back into de. And I feel like LE would be sneaky enough to do just that. Probably in cahoots with the state police next to TSS on anyone with delaware plates that carries a long gun case in and out of there. Then all they have to do is follow them once they get back into delaware and wait for some moving violation so they can pull over and investigate
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Incidentally, under Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968), where an officer has a reasonable and articulable suspicion that criminal activity is ongoing, they may conduct an investigative detention for the limited purpose of determining the target individual's name, DOB, where the individual is coming from, and what their business abroad is. Delaware has gone a step further by codifying this under its criminal code in 11 Del. C. § 1902. In effect, in the hypothetical situation above, if it is determined by the officer that the target left the state of Delaware with a newly illegal "assault weapon" and then returned to Delaware with same, then the officer is well within his rights to initiate an investigative detention even in the absence of a traffic stop. The standard is reasonable suspicion of the officer based upon concrete, observable facts as interpreted through the eyes of a similarly situated law enforcement officer. Miller v. State, 25 A.3d 760 (Del. 2011). In reaching the threshold requirement for reasonable suspicion, which is less than probable cause, an officer may rely on part on information provided to a third party so long as there is indicia of reliability for the tip received by law enforcement. Bottom line here, folks, don't go out of state to shoot anything that's currently covered under Delaware's assault ban.
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Thanks Mark. Would hate to see an honest gun owner be the first test case.
I worry about folks who go to Range Time in Gumboro where the road out front is the MD state line. Also TSS and Targetmaster very close to the PA line.
Very important to NEVER consent to a search.
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And I really started getting fond of tss