Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
General Gun Discussion => Rifles and Shotguns => Topic started by: gun nut on February 23, 2009, 12:57:16 AM
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I feel if you are walking around the house looking for that noise then no the shotgun would not be my choice. Because the muzzle will enter the room before you do. In this case I feel a handgun is the best idea.
But protecting the wife and kids in one room during a break in nothing says get out like a pump shotgun being cycled with single 0 buck shot in it.
Its just a thought what do you all think???
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How about one of the revolvers that shoot shot insteade of bulets
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not a more distinctive sound that the pump gun being cycled, nothing says I need new shorts better. It would be interesting to find out how much drywall buck shot will go through. With the way houses are made now figure if you miss the intruder with your handgun you could very likely kill whomever is sleeping behind that wall or the next few walls. And it may not be a bad idea for a barrel to enter the room before you if the guy is armed with a kitchen knife. And at 0 dark thirty it would be hard to put one round on somebody. But where do you store a loaded shotgun with kids in the house? My Mossy 500 won't fit in my little finger safe next to the bed. I really like the idea of those new Taurus judges with buck shot and a fixed light/ laser combo.
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Hey Gun Nut....
I had Patriot Arms of Delaware order me the IAC 87W Lever action shotty. Hopefully it will be in this week. I will have to stop by your place and show it to you.
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here ya go... this is the shotgun everyone should have... home defense or not!
http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/1202105406/The_AA-12_is_the_Most_Deadly_Shotgun_on_Earth (http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/1202105406/The_AA-12_is_the_Most_Deadly_Shotgun_on_Earth)
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That would make body identification difficult. And imagine the cleanup, how do you get teeth particles out of the carpet?
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I want one
wish Delaware had full auto.
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You dont worry about the carpet... :)
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I oh so want one
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Now this would be fun to have on I-95 .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nug5FZgxuk
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Here's some pictures from Oleg Volk on the topic of shotguns for home defence.
(http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/8517/argu.jpg)
(http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/6466/attitude06222.jpg)
(http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/4513/bad0447s.jpg)
(http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/341/homedefence.jpg)
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I saw a test recently on the sportsman channel where they tested penetration thru drywall of several different calibers. Needless to say all of them went thru several of the constructed walls they had set up. However, number 8 birdshot fired from a 12 gauge was stopped inside of the first wall, no penetration into the "next room". Now I'm seriously considering rigging up my Mossy as a home defence gun and try to find someplace kiddy free to store it.
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Now I'm seriously considering rigging up my Mossy as a home defence gun and try to find someplace kiddy free to store it.
Have you thought about a holster? Ya know, you're just walkin' around in your undies and your holtstered hillbilly deathstick.
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heh, here i am being a little bit late to the party again... hope that folk don't consider my replies to occasional older thread too rude. i just feel like i'm playing catch-up with the community, and wish i had known about these forums (or about my potential move to Delaware) earlier so that i could have been contributing more over the past months. ;)
a few things i'll add to the discussion of shotguns, just from personal belief and research...
1. many hardcore self-defense experts make the point that while the "racking sound" has undeniable psychological implications, it's not a defense mechanism in and of itself. heh, naturally the folk here on this forum are plenty well versed in gun matters to know that... but still, once in a great while, one comes across some foolish soul who says something like "yeah, firearms make me nervous... but that's why i have the unloaded pump shotgun around... i can just rack it and scare the feces out of any home intruder with the sound."
brilliant, brilliant, brilliant... naturally, one should never introduce a firearm into a hostile situation (even the sound of one) unless you're capable and prepared to use it.
2. the notion of a home defense shotgun protruding around a corner before you yourself do can be a valid concern, but one that i feel is definitely mitigated by how you handle the gun as well as typical distance of encounters. (let's be honest, basically no home invader is going to lurk around the corner, awaiting a muzzle to grab) if you want to learn additional tactics and such on the matter, a good book to check out is "The Defensive Shotgun" by Louis Awerbuck.
3. heh, the AA12 can look sort of cool (even if that TV show makes awful hype out of everything they demonstrate, ugh) but is frankly not something i'd really want... gas-operated, auto, etc etc etc... to me (i'm channeling my inner "old curmudgeon") that's all just more parts to potentially break.
4. for home defense if you're looking for economical options, it all comes down to the Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 series. in that vein, i'll point out that there's some breakdown in the Mossberg family. The model 500 is the Plain Jane civillian version. There is also the 590, which is the police model. (the difference? primarily, more steel and less plastic among the smaller parts like trigger guard, etc.) My home defense gun is close to that... actually it's a little-known additional model... the 590A1. This is the USMC squad shotgun, and the difference is that there are basically NO plastic parts at all in that firearm. Aside from the buttstock (which i swapped for a plain pistol grip) everything else is metal... from the safety button on down.
5. There is an age-old question of Remington vs Mossberg... in truth, it's less a matter of ruggedness and really it comes down to controls. I love two things about the Mossberg... (a) the safety is ambidextrous and (b) the feed mechanism doesn't have the "finger catch" problem that the Remington does.
6. For questions of over-penetration, there's a terrific web site called the Box O' Truth...
http://theboxotruth.com (http://theboxotruth.com) where they fling all sorts of lead into various panels of drywall, etc. The study on all sorts of shotgun rounds is here... http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm (http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm)
7. GunEnvy pointed out that a full shotgun wouldn't fit in a typical bedside safe. heh, i encountered that problem. i wound up just making my own... http://deviating.net/photos/2008-05-05-shotgun (http://deviating.net/photos/2008-05-05-shotgun) that's a box fabricated from heavy polymer board that i had routed and assembled into a long cabinet. bolts and screws were all security heads (which i later just ground or countersinked, since i'm never disassembling this) and the whole affair bolts to the bed frame. whenever i'm home, my keys actually live right here... hanging in the Abloy padlock. when i leave to go out, i take my carry piece out of there (not shown in those old photos, nor is the shell keeper sling that i have on the Mossberg now) and lock it up. it works pretty well for me. Not as super-secure as a full gun safe (enough blows with an axe and you might finally bust it apart... but it's still much, much stronger than wood) but it's good enough for one shotgun.
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are pistal grip shot guns legal in delaware, like the mossberg 500? and does anyone know who carries them?
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are pistal grip shot guns legal in delaware, like the mossberg 500?
i do not know if there are any loony local laws preventing it, but as far as NFA* status is concerned, DE is a state that allows short rifles, but not short shotguns... hence, you'd simply have to ensure that even with a pistol grip the overall size of your shotgun is 26" and the barrel is at least 18" to be legal under federal standard (since DE makes no provision for anything shorter, even with the $200 and proper paperwork)
bear in mind... both the 18" and the 26" are measured from a line as drawn directly down the bore of the barrel, not at any diagonal. (i almost cut things a little close when i chopped down an old double-barrel hammer gun... but thanks to "measure twice, cut once" i am still legal there, with about a half inch to spare for both dimensions.)
the only thing you sometimes have to worry about with pistol grip shotguns is some states classify them (or try to erroneously classify them, i should say) as "handguns" and if said state also has whacky handgun registration laws, then it can cause issues.
from what i know thus far, Delaware employs neither strange policy.
does anyone know who carries them?
i ordered mine from a Delta catalog... http://deltaforce.com (http://deltaforce.com), but they don't seem to carry that item at present anymore. Thankfully, Mr. Google points us in the right direction, as always...
http://www.google.com/products?q=mossberg%20pistol%20grip (http://www.google.com/products?q=mossberg%20pistol%20grip)
* National Firearms Act - laws concerning short-length long guns, full auto, suppressors, and other destructive devices are set at the Federal level but are enforced by the states to varying degrees of restriction. Delaware allows short-barreled rifles, but little else (no full auto, no suppressors, and no super-shorty shotguns... defined as "smooth bore other weapons")
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great info, Thanks.
Jon