Help me choose optics for my AR

[g23]

Ok so far I have been shooting with the iron sights and have been doing rather well. Im ready to go to the next step and buy some optics but there are to many to choose from and I really don't want to invest a bunch of money in something that is overkill for my shooting style.   So far I have shot out to 100 yards and I think I would like to go farther but I also think I would like to do some tactical stuff which would be 50 yards or less. I have shot a friends AR with an Eotech 512 on it and I liked it but we were only shooting targets 25 yards or less. Should I invest in something with  magnification or even night vision?  Like I said I don't want to go overkill but I want to buy the right thing the first time.


 Looking forward to your replies thanks in advance!

[Radnor]

Like I said I don't want to go overkill but I want to buy the right thing the first time.

Was going to suggest Horus Vision but...  You will NOT like the price tag.

http://horusvision.com/reticles.php

You ever want to see one, let me know.

[rusirius]

Well, Here's a few things I can tell you...  On my XCR I run an EOTech (standard circle dot).  The circle is 65moa and the dot is 1moa.  In other words, up close and personal it's great and fast... At longer range it's also nice.  I use the 1moa dot to shoot out to 100 yards all the time and it's really no problem at all.  No, it's not magnified, so if your own vision isn't up to par then you will have to consider that.  There is no focus and there is no magnification, but it's FAST and it's ACCURATE... I personally love mine.  Yes, it is expensive, but it's also a BRUTE...  The ACOG is another popular choice.  It's a @@@@ fine sight and also built like a brick, but it will hurt your pocketbook.  However, if you like the ACOG, a popular "poor mans alternative" to it is the Bushnell red dots.  Now bear in mind one thing.  The difference between a red dot and a holographic system like the EOTech is that the HWS do not suffer from parallax effects.  In other words, if you sight through a red dot it's important to have a good cheek weld and to be consistent EACH AND EVERY TIME, because your EYE is actually part of the sight radius.  Since you're using irons, think of it this way.  If the red dot were your front sight, then your eye would be the rear sight.  If your eye moves left or right between shots, the point of aim is going to shift with it.  However in a holographic system, the reticle tracks WITH your eye... So as you move your head around behind the sight you'll see the reticle move to STAY on the target (assuming the rifle is locked in place).  This makes two-eye open shooting much easier and quicker as well as more accurate (since it's not based on consistency of cheek weld).

Now as for the long distance stuff, I also run an flip to side magnifier in front of the EOTech.  So if I want to make a long distance shot I just flip it in place and I've got magnification (I think it's 4x if I recall), or alternatively I just press a button and it flips out of the way so I can use the eotech unmagnified...

If you go with a system like this, I'll give you a bit of advice.  Don't skimp on the EOTech... Buy the real deal.  With the magnifier, you can certainly buy something cheaper like the Primary Arms stuff.  The magnifier is NOT holding zero, and frankly you really don't use it that often anyway.  Don't buy one with a mount.  Just buy a good flip to side mount separately.  All the ones that come with mounts, the mounts are junk and you'll be replacing it anyway.  I'd never buy the cheap knockoff crap with ANYTHING that needed to hold a zero though.

Last but not least there are a range of scopes that you can put on it.  I'll be honest with you though, I'm not a fan of scopes on these types of platforms... Unless ALL you're doing is long range shooting, that would be the exception.  Unless you get a QD mount for it you're going to be severely limiting is close quarters effectiveness.  With my setup I can shoot with the EOTech, my irons co-witness show I can use the BUIS with the EOTech on or off, and I can also use the magnification or not... It's versatile.  I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I don't feel that way with a scope mounted.

[rusirius]

BTW, here's a shot of my XCR.  You can see the EOTech up front, the magnifier behind, and the BUIS front and rear.  It's like one big happy family...

P.S. Sorry there's so much background noise... It was just a crap shot I snapped after cleaning it..

[Moosie]

RUSirius,

I've got to ask... is that tricycle what you use in your driveby's with your AR?  heheheheee 

Your EOTech set up sounds lovely! That's my next purchase this summer is to outfit my AR. 

Great info! 

Moosie

[rusirius]

RUSirius,

I've got to ask... is that tricycle what you use in your driveby's with your AR?  heheheheee 

Your EOTech set up sounds lovely! That's my next purchase this summer is to outfit my AR. 

Great info! 

Moosie

Well, originally I used the scooter.  I liked it better because the handle bars were a lot higher... I could take a knee and get off a pretty good shot.  The problem was, that scooter is inherently unstable.  The first trial run I musta been doing about 12mph and the rifle tweaked the handle bars just a LITTLE bit and BLAMO!!! I was scrubbing out the road rash with a wire brush...  Not pretty...

So then I switched to the tricycle... It's been working out pretty well for me so far.  Only problem is you have to keep pedaling, which makes getting a shot off much more difficult.  If you stop pedaling it just starts flapping those pedals into your feet and beating you to death with your own knees.  I also like the little ringer bell on it too...  That way just as you're approaching your target you can ring that thing out as if to say, "Yo mutter pucker!  Look what's coming FOR YOU!!!"  Pretty intimidating...

I'm thinking about switching off to a Big Wheel though.  I think the improved ergonomics should help tremendously.  Only thing is, some of my friends that use them tell me they have serious traction issues during fast escape maneuvers... I dunno, just have to see.

They see me rolling........

[Radnor]

I'm thinking about switching off to a Big Wheel though. 

Lower C/G will not tip over as easily when sliding around the corners...

[g23]

Wow... Thanks for all of the great info... I am thinking I will go the eotech  route just have to figure of the magnification side of things... There always seem to be a few people at the range with AR's loaded with goodies I think I will have to see if they will let me look at the magnification set up they have and fire a few rounds to see what I want...  If you were buying an Eotech today what model number would you get... Seems like I always see people with the 512

[rusirius]

Eotech is always confusing because they have about a MILLION different models...  Forget about all the various part numbers and such... Here's what it really comes down to...

A)  What type of battery do you want?
    - The model in my pic above takes standard AA batteries.  The advantage to that was at the time the other option was the N type batteries... Much harder to get, more expensive, and not a whole lot smaller.  Now you can get one that uses a single 123.  The 123 can be picked up at your local wal-mart so availability isn't a problem.  It makes the eotech much shorter so it takes less rail space.  Not a problem if you've got a big arse monolithic like the XCR, but maybe a concern if you don't have much to work with.  It's also lighter.
    * So while I'm perfectly happy with my AA powered EOTech, if I was buying it today I'd get the 123 powered model.

B) What type of reticle do you want? 
    - There's a ton of options here too, but in general it works like this... Do you want a 65moa circle with a 1moa dot in the center (as mine described above) or do you want a single 1moa dot.  There are other models with ballistic drops calibrated for .308, .50, etc... less lethal, and just about everything imaginable, but the circle dot or dot are the two basic options. 
    * I can't see any reason for going with the dot over the circle dot.  Just doesn't make sense to me NOT to have it. 

C) Will you be using it with NV equipment?
    - You either will or won't.  If it has the option to go into NV mode it costs more.  If you won't be using it, then you can leave it off and it'll cost less...
    * I don't have NV gear, so I'd leave it off...

D) Any other non-standard things you're looking for?
     - You can get them in various camo, you can get them with buttons on the side (to make use with magnifiers easier.. I.e. the magnifier doesn't get in the way of the buttons.  You rarely ever change the buttons... You turn it on, adjust it's brightness for the current lighting and then you don't touch it again... Not a necessary option...
     * I'm a "standard" kind of guy...

So anyway, what do we learn from all this?  If I was personally buying an EOTech today, I'd get the XPS2-2.  Circle dot with 123 and no NV support.

You might want something different, but don't get confused by the models, just focus on what features you do or don't want, and then you can pinpoint the model from there.

[Condition 1]

I personally prefer the Aimpoint for red dot.

Another choice is to get an ACOG.

I will actually be selling my VMX3 with the mount in  a week or so to get an ACOG.

I am thinking $170 for the magnifier with the ADM QD flip to side mount, price new is around $230

[TwistedKarma]

Great post rusirius .

[rusirius]

I personally prefer the Aimpoint for red dot.

Another choice is to get an ACOG.

I will actually be selling my VMX3 with the mount in  a week or so to get an ACOG.

I am thinking $170 for the magnifier with the ADM QD flip to side mount, price new is around $230

Just out of curiosity, have you checked out the EOTechs?  Just wondering what it is about the ACOG you like versus the EOTech?  I wonder because I went through a self-debate when choosing an optic myself.  I really liked that the ACOG didn't use batteries, but then given the battery life of the EOTech I didn't really consider it a downfall.  I liked the EOTech because of the 1MOA dot, whereas if I remember right the ACOG was 3MOA?  I also like the option of being able to remove the magnifier from the EOTech for CQB.  On the other hand, I really liked the drop compensation on the ACOG.  In the end, obviously, I decided on the EOTech.  Already having a FTS magnifier I would have thought you would have leaned more toward the EOTech?

[Condition 1]

some reasons I like the Aimpoint better are based on side by side comparison and reviews on the web.

Some people have reported problems with the battery compartment on some EOTech bounce and eventually loosing contact.

The battery life of the Aimpoint are years while EOtech are months

I like the single dot 2MOA (my preferred) or 4MOA on Aimpoint better than the busy circle of the EOTech.

Holding them both side by side, the Aimpoint feels much more sturdy all business like.

The EOTech and Aimpoint are the best in red dot optics, people swear by both. It comes down to personal preference.

I know you asked why I like the ACOG better, and I made the comparison with the Aimpoint cause I think that is what you meant, since the ACOGS and red dots are a little different for different purposes. Take a look at the Trijicon ACOGS, no battery needed, four times magnifier (or more)...they are a different system all together not specially designed for CQB like the red dots are.  

[Condition 1]

The ACOGS are usually for a specific caliber, mid to long ranges, for the 5.56 you zero at 100 meters (i believe) and they have bullet drop compensator out to 800 meters.

[rusirius]

some reasons I like the Aimpoint better are based on side by side comparison and reviews on the web.

Some people have reported problems with the battery compartment on some EOTech bounce and eventually loosing contact.

The battery life of the Aimpoint are years while EOtech are months

I like the single dot 2MOA (my preferred) or 4MOA on Aimpoint better than the busy circle of the EOTech.

Holding them both side by side, the Aimpoint feels much more sturdy all business like.

The EOTech and Aimpoint are the best in red dot optics, people swear by both. It comes down to personal preference.

I know you asked why I like the ACOG better, and I made the comparison with the Aimpoint cause I think that is what you meant, since the ACOGS and red dots are a little different for different purposes. Take a look at the Trijicon ACOGS, no battery needed, four times magnifier (or more)...they are a different system all together not specially designed for CQB like the red dots are.  

Actually I was curious of your thoughts with ACOG versus EOTech.  I realize the aimpoints are perhaps a bit better comparison, but my point was, you obviously already have a magnifier so I was wondering why you hadn't considered just adding an EOTech along with it to basically get to the same place you'd get with an ACOG.  Like I said, I struggled with it myself for a while trying to decide EOTech with a magnifier or ACOG.  Since I made the opposite choice I was just curious if you had considered the same choice and why you had decided on the ACOG if so.