Delaware Legislative Alert - Sign the Petition

[Bullpup]

Saw this on the deloc.org Facebook page: 

http://www.nagr.org/state/sign-petition/DE.aspx?pid=FL01a

[Cbmarine]

This petition addresses several five bills that were considered last year.  While I agree that HB 58 and HB 67 are dangerous to gun owner/carriers, we need to carefully consider HB 88, the mental health bill which is mentioned in the body of the petition.  In the wake of the Aaron Alexis and apparently other mentally ill shooters, we shouldn't knee-jerk reject a bill without knowing what is in it.  NRA-ILA was in agreement with HB 88 as amended by three amendments.  You can find the text of the 2013 bill here. http://legis.delaware.gov/LIS/lis147.nsf/vwLegislation/HB+88?Opendocument. To fully understand the bill, you need to incorporate the amendments.
The bill still needs an amendment to tighten up who is allowed to submit mental health alert and better procedures to get removed from prohibition when the problem is resolved.  In 2013, HB 88 passed the House 40-1 but failed in the Senate 6-13 in a last minute vote.  It is highly likely to come up again.  I would like to see the bona fide mentally ill prohibited without sweeping up legitimate gun owners by vindictive hoplophobics.
If you disagree with me, please present a cogent argument backed up with facts. 

[Bullpup]

If you disagree with me, please present a cogent argument backed up with facts. 

Wow!  All I did was post a link.  And I'm new here.  Thanks for the warm welcome.

[Cbmarine]

If you disagree with me, please present a cogent argument backed up with facts.  

Wow!  All I did was post a link.  And I'm new here.  Thanks for the warm welcome.

@bullpup, my comments weren 't direct at you or your posting. This discussion on HB 88 has been ongoing for some time. The quoted sentence was an open invitation to the forum. I fully agree with NAGR's opposition to HB 58 and HB 67. My apologies for engendering an inferred offense; I should have been more careful with my wording.   Please continue to participate.

[oldgraygeek]

If you disagree with me, please present a cogent argument backed up with facts. 

Wow!  All I did was post a link.  And I'm new here.  Thanks for the warm welcome.

Fear not: they even put up with me, and I'm a Communist. We need you here, Bullpup.

[Bullpup]

Thank you, Cbmarine.  My default response to ANY new firearms legislation is to oppose it, but I will research HB88 further.

[SturmRugerSR9]

On-line petitions may express peoples opinions of a subject, but are not a legally or officially acceptible, as the signers real names, addresses and residency, can't be offically verified . For example how can you verify a signer truly lives in Delaware?  I see a lot of this on the Internet, and at best it is a "feel good" exercise. If this was submitted to the Legislature in Delaware it would be just another "File 13".

[groundgrid]

Politics is a game with constant give & take. For us to appear as reasonable gun owners as opposed to "gun nuts" I believe that we need to work with legislation that can be drafted so that it does not affect law abiding gun owners. HB88 MAY be one that we can support providing the following issues are considered:

1). As revised the bill does require that only mental health professionals make notifications regarding dangerous individuals. My opinion is that it should state "only by or under the direct supervision of a physician (MD) or PhD. level licensed psychologist" Restricting someone's rights should not be within the powers of anyone that does not have the highest level of training.

2). Reports need to require "directly observed actions or behaviour" that indicate a person is potentially violent and a threat.
Language must be included that does not allow the reporting of an individual just because they take a certain medication or seek
help for a particular condition.

3). The opinion of a professional (MD or PhD.) should be all that is needed to have a person's rights restored without ongoing repercussions.
If your psychiatrist says that he/she does not believe you to be be a threat, that should be sufficient to vacate any court order and have your rights restored. Pro 2A groups could maintain a referral database of gun friendly professionals to assist with this.

Here is an example of what the law CANNOT allow to happen:
Someone starts taking a new medication for a medical condition (e.g. high blood pressure), a few days later they totally flip out in public and are taken to a treatment facility. Someone at that facility reports them to the State. When the drug is out of their system they are just fine. This is not a mental illness, just an unfortunate reaction to a new medication. Once cleared by their physician all actions against this person should cease with no permanent repercussions.

Conversely, this is what I hope we can all agree should happen:
Someone hears voices and becomes deeply paranoid. He/she begins to hoard firearms. A family member sees this behavior and reports it to the police. The police find him living in his basement with numerous pictures of people he believes to be stalking him. He is taken to a facility and diagnosed with Paranoid Schizophrenia. He will not allow his family to take his guns for safe keeping & refuses to seek ongoing care. Clearly this is a case that requires intervention.

Most importantly, any support for HB88 should only be given if we get something in return.
My suggestion is that we support HB88 on the condition that all other anti 2A bills are stricken from the agenda.

Simply put, if you pass a background check and are not seriously mentally ill, why should you be restricted from having certain guns or a certain number of bullets?

[poster formerly know as Silverbullet]

Thank you, Cbmarine.  My default response to ANY new firearms legislation is to oppose it, but I will research HB88 further.

Welcome and I think we are all entitled to our opinions. I will say with gun control as most progressive issues you give an inch they will push for a mile. We have checks in place. I am fully against hb88 unless they want to pay armed police to accompany people who lose their rights to self defense. Anyone can go through a depression, especially today.

With many issues on the left I can see something staring out that people that are psychopaths or something of that nature not having guns, but if that is the case they also should work on stripping voting rights from them as both are key freedoms.

I see it as a Trojan horse to disarm people and sadly I have a tendency to see through things. I was one of the ones saying Obama was after our guns when people on other gun boards in the state were saying he "has done nothing but give more freedom to gun owners"

A life lesson is give a progressive an inch and they will push for a mile. Countless examples can be offered if need be, but they often involve "inconvenient truths"

[Adrenolin]

groundgrid.. how about correcting things also.. like the fact the legislature passed full control over firearms in the state parks to the head honcho of Fish and Wildlife (or whatever the department was). When I'm hiking or camping alone or with my little guy this is exactly where I want my firearm as danger doesn't stop at the park entrance. There is no state law that tells us we can't enter a state park but there is a rule from an individual. Thats not right. There should be a provision or amendment allowing CCDW permit holders the right to carry in the parks.

I see lots of new laws and bills for gun control but very little in the way of reversing things like the above. Hopefully changes will happen but why is it always us who wind up giving instead of taking back.

[groundgrid]

I agree.

IMO, the willingness to discuss HB88 with the legislature opens up the opportunity to bring up these
other issues.

If we all try to meet with our respective reps and senators (given that it is an election year) it is highly possible that
some action can be taken. Again, this is politics, horsetrading is how things get done.

[groundgrid]

Adrenolin:

Check out the oral arguments in the Doe vs Wilm Housing authority case.
One of the issues is whether the Housing Authority has the ability to make gun rules.
Being that they are an arm of the government & state law forbids local gun laws, the argument is that they are forbidden to do so.

This same approach may work against the Divison of Fish & Wildlife. They are the de facto government with regard to the parks & have full
law enforcement authority in those areas. Therefore, should they not come under the preemption rule that forbids local government from
enacting gun laws?

I  suggest sending an e-mail to Francis Pileggi thanking him for his work on the case & ask him about this issue.

I'm very curious as to what he might say.

[Cbmarine]

I agree.

IMO, the willingness to discuss HB88 with the legislature opens up the opportunity to bring up these
other issues.

If we all try to meet with our respective reps and senators (given that it is an election year) it is highly possible that
some action can be taken. Again, this is politics, horsetrading is how things get done.

We need to be willing to discuss.  Not discussing is like keeping the Forest Service from trimming the brush around your cabin.  Later, a forest fire burns your cabin down.  Who do you blame? If a tragedy like Sandy Hook or the Washington Navy Yard occurs in DE, we will be facing a legislative forest fire containing all the bills we should oppose.

Here's an extract from my engrossed version of HB 88:  yes, there is something I don't like.  What is it?

(b) The Department shall have the burden of proving by clear and convincing evidence that the respondent is dangerous to others or self as defined in Section 5122 of Title 16. Any proceedings pursuant to this section shall be in a closed and confidential hearing. The respondent shall have the right to present evidence and be heard in any such proceedings.  In the event that the Court makes such a finding, the Court shall issue an order to relinquish respondent’s firearms or ammunition...
...
(d) Any person subject to an order of the Court pursuant to this Subchapter may petition the Court for an order to return firearms or ammunition by procedures established by § 1448A of this Title. 
(e) If the basis for relinquishment in 1448B(b) is removed by the Court, any firearms and ammunition taken from the person shall be restored in a timely fashion without the requirement of § 1448A.
(f) Any party in interest aggrieved by a decision of the Courts under this Subchapter may appeal such decision to Supreme Court.

[JOET]

All should be opposed..this is their "Feel Good Legislation" again.

I have heard from C4L that this bill is gonna come up within the first two days of the session.

[JOET]

Here is what First State Liberty has to say....

Patriot,
 
The term “Mental Illness” is an easy excuse for government to do a lot of damage.
 
In Arlington Heights, Illinois, a man went to a therapist to get a few things off his chest.
 
What he got in return was a far cry from simple consolation.
 
At 11:00 PM -- the same night after coming home from the therapist -- there was a knock at his door.
 
It was the police.
 
He was arrested and hauled off for a mental health screening.
 
His firearms were confiscated and held for months.
 
All in one night.
 
Don't think this could happen in Delaware?
 
Think again.
 
If HB-88 passes in the next few weeks the flood gates for gun confiscation will open in Delaware.
 
It is unlawful and unjust to detain someone, invade their property, confiscate their belongings, and force them to undergo treatment based on hearsay.
 
Yet that's exactly what Markell and Biden want to do.
 
You can see how the powers of HB-88 can easily be abused.
 
And this bill will certainly cause people – especially veterans with PTSD - to avoid seeking treatment.
 
Our sources have confirmed that Delaware Senators are planning to bring back House Bill 88 in the first two days of session – the “Mental Illness” involuntary detainment and gun confiscation bill we defeated in June.
 
So the future of gun ownership in Delaware comes down to TWO DAYS – January 14th and 15th.
 
They can do this through a process called “reconsideration.”
 
Even if a bill is soundly defeated, any Senator from the winning side of the vote (a vote of NO in this case) can bring a bill back to the floor for another vote.
 
In other words:
 
When the gun grabbers are being defeated fair and square, one of them votes the right way so they can have a second try.
 
We’ve assembled a plan to defeat them again, but we can’t do it without help from all of you.
 
There are three easy things you can do from home to protect our freedom in this fight: •Donate Money
•Call Weak Senators
•Call Bill Sponsor
 Please donate whatever you can -- $25, $50, or $100 – so we can knock these politicians down in Round 2.
 
Our goal is to raise $10,000 by January 10th.
 
And we’re going to need every penny.
 
Senate leadership has a lot of tools in their war chest that they will use to threaten Senators into switching sides.
 
And Attorney General, Beau Biden, is likely to bribe a few with political promises to reverse the stinging defeat.
 
Below is a list of the politicians that are most vulnerable to being strong-armed into changing their vote.
 
Please call them as often as possible over the next 4 weeks and DEMAND that they Vote NO on House Bill 88 when it is brought back for a second chance.
 
      Brian Bushweller (D-17th)
       302-674-5442
 
      Robert Marshall (D-3rd)
       302-577-8519
 
      David McBride (D-13th)
       302-577-8744
 
Feel free to report back any results.
 
And finally, call Representative Michael Barbieri (D-18th) at 302-420-6564.
 
DEMAND that he have House Bill 88 STRICKEN from the record immediately.
 
Thanks for all that you do.
 
In Liberty,
 
Eric Boye
 Chairman, First State Liberty PAC
 
P.S. The fight over the future of gun ownership in Delaware has come down to two days – January 14th and 15th. Please do the Three Things for Freedom listed above.
 
We need to raise $10,000 by January 10th. Help us meet the “10 by 10” goal by donating TODAY!
 
Please click here right now to chip in online.

 
 
- - - - - -
 FIRST STATE LIBERTY PAC
 PO Box 7885
 Newark, DE 19714
 302-729-2178
 FirstStateLiberty@gmail.com
 www.FirstStateLiberty.org
 Like Our Facebook Page
 
AUTHORITY: Hollie Gorman, Treasurer
 




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Patriot,
 
The term “Mental Illness” is an easy excuse for government to do a lot of damage.
 
In Arlington Heights, Illinois, a man went to a therapist to get a few things off his chest.
 
What he got in return was a far cry from simple consolation.
 
At 11:00 PM -- the same night after coming home from the therapist -- there was a knock at his door.
 
It was the police.
 
He was arrested and hauled off for a mental health screening.
 
His firearms were confiscated and held for months.
 
All in one night.
 
Don't think this could happen in Delaware?
 
Think again.
 
If HB-88 passes in the next few weeks the flood gates for gun confiscation will open in Delaware.
 
It is unlawful and unjust to detain someone, invade their property, confiscate their belongings, and force them to undergo treatment based on hearsay.
 
Yet that's exactly what Markell and Biden want to do.
 
You can see how the powers of HB-88 can easily be abused.
 
And this bill will certainly cause people – especially veterans with PTSD - to avoid seeking treatment.
 
Our sources have confirmed that Delaware Senators are planning to bring back House Bill 88 in the first two days of session – the “Mental Illness” involuntary detainment and gun confiscation bill we defeated in June.
 
So the future of gun ownership in Delaware comes down to TWO DAYS – January 14th and 15th.
 
They can do this through a process called “reconsideration.”
 
Even if a bill is soundly defeated, any Senator from the winning side of the vote (a vote of NO in this case) can bring a bill back to the floor for another vote.
 
In other words:
 
When the gun grabbers are being defeated fair and square, one of them votes the right way so they can have a second try.
 
We’ve assembled a plan to defeat them again, but we can’t do it without help from all of you.
 
There are three easy things you can do from home to protect our freedom in this fight: •Donate Money
•Call Weak Senators
•Call Bill Sponsor
 Please donate whatever you can -- $25, $50, or $100 – so we can knock these politicians down in Round 2.
 
Our goal is to raise $10,000 by January 10th.
 
And we’re going to need every penny.
 
Senate leadership has a lot of tools in their war chest that they will use to threaten Senators into switching sides.
 
And Attorney General, Beau Biden, is likely to bribe a few with political promises to reverse the stinging defeat.
 
Below is a list of the politicians that are most vulnerable to being strong-armed into changing their vote.
 
Please call them as often as possible over the next 4 weeks and DEMAND that they Vote NO on House Bill 88 when it is brought back for a second chance.
 
      Brian Bushweller (D-17th)
       302-674-5442
 
      Robert Marshall (D-3rd)
       302-577-8519
 
      David McBride (D-13th)
       302-577-8744
 
Feel free to report back any results.
 
And finally, call Representative Michael Barbieri (D-18th) at 302-420-6564.
 
DEMAND that he have House Bill 88 STRICKEN from the record immediately.
 
Thanks for all that you do.
 
In Liberty,
 
Eric Boye
 Chairman, First State Liberty PAC
 
P.S. The fight over the future of gun ownership in Delaware has come down to two days – January 14th and 15th. Please do the Three Things for Freedom listed above.
 
We need to raise $10,000 by January 10th. Help us meet the “10 by 10” goal by donating TODAY!
 
Please click here right now to chip in online.

 
 
- - - - - -
 FIRST STATE LIBERTY PAC
 PO Box 7885
 Newark, DE 19714
 302-729-2178
 FirstStateLiberty@gmail.com
 www.FirstStateLiberty.org
 Like Our Facebook Page
 
AUTHORITY: Hollie Gorman, Treasurer
 




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To update your preferences and to unsubscribe visit this link
 Forward a Message to Someone this link
 



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