Author Topic: New UD student here  (Read 9245 times)

UDMAN

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
New UD student here
« on: April 15, 2014, 01:19:23 AM »
Hello Guys,

New Castle County born and raised ! I turn 21 in June and plan on applying for my CCW, I am wondering what the deal is with having my side arm around campus. I often work in the library until well after midnight, and would like to be safe at all times. I know there are weird rules sometimes regarding these types of situations such as the safe school act?. I also want to make sure I am currently staying legal, I have had my rifles at my townhouse now for several months and want to make sure there is no rules against having rifles stored within a certain distance of campus (I am on main street next year).

Thanks a lot!
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 01:28:13 AM by UDMAN »

Zallith

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 28
Re: New UD student here
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2014, 01:54:52 AM »
         From what I gather from those more knowledgeable here and from the class I took to apply for my CCW. There is nothing "Illegal" about carrying on campus or any other school in Delaware. It is however more then likely in the "Rules" from the university that you may not posses a fire arm on campus. I would say however in my humble opinion that Concealed is Concealed so if no one knows you have it and its not illegal then who cares? As far as the rifles go as long as the building is not owned by UD then it should not be a problem. Legally I know its not an issue however UD rules could be an issue if they own the property you will be staying at. Hope this helps.

Cbmarine

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1396
  • III Marine Amphib Corps. My dad’s shoulder patch
Re: New UD student here
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2014, 04:01:31 AM »
.... It is however more then likely in the "Rules" from the university that you may not posses a fire arm on campus...
True.  Without pulling the string further, I expect that a student carrying on UD campus would be expelled. Question of risk vs. reward. Suggest searching this forum for a discussion of carrying on campus laws both Fed and State. Short answer interpretation: if you have a DE CCDW, you can concealed carry in a DE school. Do your due diligence before carrying.

http://www.udel.edu/stuguide/13-14/code.html#weapons
Code Of Conduct
S. Weapons, Dangerous Instruments, and Explosive Chemicals or Devices on Campus
Statement of Policy
The possession, use or threat of use of any object that may reasonably be believed to cause physical injury to another person is prohibited.

Prohibited Activities
Specific violations of this policy include, but are not limited to, the possession, use or threat of use of any of the following items on campus:

Any firearm (including any weapon or instrument from which a shot, projectile, or other object may be discharged by force, whether operable or inoperable, loaded or unloaded);
Any toy gun which, based on color, design or appearance, would be considered by a reasonable person to be an actual firearm;
Any deadly weapon, defined as any instrument, item, or material readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury;
Just a smelly deplorable dreg of society clinging to God and guns.
New Castle County
_..  .  _._   _..  ..._ _  .  ._.

Cbmarine

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1396
  • III Marine Amphib Corps. My dad’s shoulder patch
Just a smelly deplorable dreg of society clinging to God and guns.
New Castle County
_..  .  _._   _..  ..._ _  .  ._.

Radnor

  • Administrator
  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2380
  • New Castle Co.
Re: New UD student here
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2014, 12:32:39 PM »
Welcome.

You'll find lots of info here.

When you are ready for your class, let me know.
NRA Certified Instructor and Training Counselor
CRSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Personal Protection In and Outside The Home, Home Firearm Safety, & Reloading.

Knowledge, skills, & experience have value. If you expect to profit from someone's you should expect to pay.

Clarence

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1672
  • Liberty and Independence
Re: New UD student here
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2014, 04:18:25 PM »
I would say straight up that carry on campus would be no different than carry on the job. They have the right to make the rules and you have to abide by them.
DE MD PA VA FL ccw. NRA Life Member. DSSA member. Sussex County

Quod non me necat me fortiorem facit.

demark04

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
    • Delaware APA
Re: New UD student here
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2014, 12:11:19 PM »
I have looked through the the Del Code numerous times, I can not find anywhere stating that a CCDW exempts you from the Safe School Zone. I have also heard from an instructor that it does not. Would someone happen to have a link to the code that states a CCDW is exempt? Yeh, Federal law exempts it, but I would not want to temp Delaware. I have also talked to a LEO that is pro 2A, he also said it does not exempt you. 
DE, PA, FL, CCDW
New Castle County

Zallith

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 28
Re: New UD student here
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2014, 01:26:03 PM »
Laws are written in legalese which is not always so friendly. The law states it's a crime to carry a deadly weapon illegally in a school. If you have a ccw you are carrying legally and there fore the statute does not apply. There are few laws written that specifically say you may do this, they are almost always written it is unlawfully if you do this while committing amother crime also. Dave from First State can probably explain this better than I.

Beretta92

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 55
Re: New UD student here
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2014, 12:42:42 AM »

Cbmarine

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1396
  • III Marine Amphib Corps. My dad’s shoulder patch
Re: New UD student here
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2014, 02:21:39 AM »
Laws are written in legalese which is not always so friendly. The law states it's a crime to carry a deadly weapon illegally in a school. If you have a ccw you are carrying legally and there fore the statute does not apply. There are few laws written that specifically say you may do this, they are almost always written it is unlawfully if you do this while committing amother crime also. Dave from First State can probably explain this better than I.
I agree with @Zallith.  
Here's a summary from the deloc thread referenced a couple of posts previous.
"Here's my interpretation (IANAL). A §1457 violation occurs when you violate §1442. But if you have a CCDW permit, you are not in violation of §1442. Federal 18 USC 922q2 (quoted previous) says your DE CCDW allows you to carry in a DE school zone.
So carrying with a DE school with a DE CCDW permit is OK but with limits if you are a student or employee there."
Please comment if you disagree. Also HB 67, iirc, would remove CCDW from schools; if we couldn't carry now, why are they trying to remove carry in schools?  BTW, carrying on a school bus is illegal.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 09:51:23 PM by Cbmarine »
Just a smelly deplorable dreg of society clinging to God and guns.
New Castle County
_..  .  _._   _..  ..._ _  .  ._.

demark04

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
    • Delaware APA
Re: New UD student here
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2014, 12:02:00 PM »
Sorry, I know this thread was started asking about UD in particular. I was asking about the Safe School Zone in general in Delaware. Does anyone know where to find the Delaware code where it references a CCDW holder as being exempt, like the Federal Law states. Like I said, a friend of mine is a pro 2A Local Leo. And said it not not exempt, against the law. He also stated that they don't search either u.less there is a problem or probable cause. 
DE, PA, FL, CCDW
New Castle County

Hawkeye

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1088
  • Jihad This!
Re: New UD student here
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2014, 04:24:01 PM »
Does anyone know where to find the Delaware code where it references a CCDW holder as being exempt, like the Federal Law states.

It does not say concealed carriers are exempt.  You can find the code here:

http://delcode.delaware.gov/title11/c005/sc07/index.shtml

Scroll down to: § 1457 Possession of a weapon in a Safe School and Recreation Zone; class D, E, or F felony; class A or B misdemeanor.

If I am reading the code correctly (IANAL) you have to commit one of the underlying offenses for the code to be applied. Someone more knowledgeable in the law might correct me on this.

The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they suppress.
Sussex County

firststatefirearms

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 112
Re: New UD student here
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2014, 05:34:57 PM »
I am no a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.  This is just my opinion.

The "Safe School Zone Law" is a Federal Law.  I would think if the Federal Law exempts CCDW Holders then CCDW Holders are exempt. 

Just because a LEO says CCDW is not exempt in Delaware doesn't make it fact.  Most LEO's are not lawyers and should not give legal advice any more than any of us giving legal advice.

I do believe that the "Safe School Zone Law" is for schools K-12 only.   I do believe Colleges, Universities, etc. are not covered.
An armed citizen refuses to be a victim.

Cbmarine

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1396
  • III Marine Amphib Corps. My dad’s shoulder patch
Re: New UD student here
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2014, 09:49:58 PM »
I am no a lawyer and do not offer legal advice.  This is just my opinion.

The "Safe School Zone Law" is a Federal Law.  I would think if the Federal Law exempts CCDW Holders then CCDW Holders are exempt.  

Just because a LEO says CCDW is not exempt in Delaware doesn't make it fact.  Most LEO's are not lawyers and should not give legal advice any more than any of us giving legal advice.

I do believe that the "Safe School Zone Law" is for schools K-12 only.   I do believe Colleges, Universities, etc. are not covered.
The answers are nicely assembled here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990
Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990

Short answers: 18 USC § 922q2a exempts CC permit holders in their state under specific conditions.  IANAL, DE CCDW permit holders are exempt in DE schools.
18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(26) defines school as elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law
18 USC § 922q4 says states can enact their own statutes on safe school zones
11 Del C §1457 enacts a safe school zone law where an underlying offense is carrying a deadly weapon as defined in §1442
11 Del C §1442 is not violated if you have a DE CCDW permit
HB 67 currently in the DE House would take that privilege away but allows LEOs to carry. http://legis.delaware.gov/LIS/LIS147.nsf/vwLegislation/HB+67?Opendocument

Unfortunately, 18 USC §921q3a says it is unlawful discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm in a school zone.  So if you do, ya better git it right!
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 10:32:06 PM by Cbmarine »
Just a smelly deplorable dreg of society clinging to God and guns.
New Castle County
_..  .  _._   _..  ..._ _  .  ._.