Author Topic: # of DE CCWers over the years?  (Read 11943 times)

Paladin4CA

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# of DE CCWers over the years?
« on: October 28, 2014, 03:35:12 PM »
(Not sure if this is the right subforum. Plz move if it is not.)

Does DE publish the number of current CCW holders each year?

Do they break it down by county?

If so, how have the numbers changed since 2000?

Can anyone provide a link/s to a state website that has those statistics?

Is DECCW/other org executing a plan to increase the number of CCW holders in the state? (i.e., get more people w/a "vested interest" in maintaining and improving DE residents' RKBA at the state & local levels)

If not, why not?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 03:09:32 PM by Paladin4CA »
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Clarence

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Re: # of DE CCWers over the years?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2014, 10:01:35 PM »
Well it is definitely more common now that at any time.  The state does not even publish the numbers but a recent comment by a deputy AG indicated around 10,000 active permits statewide.  

I rather suspect the more or less $400 cost, the fact that you have to publish your intent in the newspaper and the hassle of obtaining 5 character references deters many.

Of course we are  a state of only 900,000 people so with an eligible population of about 600,000, our percentages are low. We are also "May issue" to some degree so only the committed bother to apply I suspect.

In next door Pennsylvania, there is no training or fingerprints.  Most counties issue right over the counter and it is only $20.  They have about 1,000,000.  Even discounting the substantial number of out of staters who get a PA License, about 8 or 9 percent of eligible persons have the LTCF.   In some rural counties as many as 25%!!!

Of course our May Issue is nothing like New Jersey or Maryland.  We actually do eventually get licensed for the most part.

I only know of one person (aside from reading on this forum) who was denied and he was always having the cops at his house for domestic fights.  
Not a good mix.

Things changed here in the early 2000s.

Prior you mostly had to be carrying a lot of money to get a license.

Kind of a funny news story I ran across:

In 1953 in the city of Wilmington there were " two or three" licensed to carry.  At the time a city of 116,000 souls.

As for what we are doing?   This forum is the best example.  There are many more "lurkers" here than members and I rather suspect many are gathering information to " go for it".

We probably could have had " shall issue " or sorts about 8 or 9 years ago but the restrictions and amendments were intolerable.  We walked away.  

Remember too that we do have a very strong State Constitutional right under Article 20.  

« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 12:30:52 AM by Clarence »
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SteveMiller

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Re: # of DE CCWers over the years?
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2014, 11:49:15 PM »
How hard would it be to get the 5 references or newspaper part dropped or would that bring about the same amendments that were discussed when shall issue vs. may issue was being considered?  Those were the two largest pieces that made me procrastinate the most.  Once you get past those 2 hurdles the rest are about tolerable so that we don't get all the other amendments / prohibited places etc.
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ThePixelated

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Re: # of DE CCWers over the years?
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2014, 11:51:44 PM »
How hard would it be to get the 5 references or newspaper part dropped or would that bring about the same amendments that were discussed when shall issue vs. may issue was being considered?  Those were the two largest pieces that made me procrastinate the most.  Once you get past those 2 hurdles the rest are about tolerable so that we don't get all the other amendments / prohibited places etc.

With the current amount of democrats in the state legislature, I'd say very hard.


Clarence

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Re: # of DE CCWers over the years?
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2014, 02:26:22 PM »
How hard would it be to get the 5 references or newspaper part dropped or would that bring about the same amendments that were discussed when shall issue vs. may issue was being considered?  Those were the two largest pieces that made me procrastinate the most.  Once you get past those 2 hurdles the rest are about tolerable so that we don't get all the other amendments / prohibited places etc.

With the current amount of democrats in the state legislature, I'd say very hard.


Generally I agree but remember that there are several very strong pro gun Democrats in Dover and we do not want to write them off just for being Democrats. 
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SteveMiller

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Re: # of DE CCWers over the years?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2014, 01:01:37 AM »
Oh, I forgot one other thing - set a maximum time limit to issue to decline.  It is unbelievable that current applicants are having to wait 6 months or more in New Castle County.
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lems902

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Re: # of DE CCWers over the years?
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2014, 12:25:55 AM »
This makes me think - why don't we make THIS an actual organization?  Then we could organize - come together as one group to maybe make a difference!  Even things like education...  The OP asked about what we are doing to increase CCDW holder number.  Why don't we work with FFLs in the state and maybe set up info booths at different shops from time to time.  At least we could be asking the question "Do you have a CCDW permit?  If not, why?"...

I do think that increased numbers send a message. 

Just some thoughts after reading the thread!
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Adrenolin

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Re: # of DE CCWers over the years?
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2014, 12:45:51 AM »
Delaware's Constitution protects CCDW permit holders personal information and it can't be made public. This protects us individually from targeting groups like the one who mapped and published NY suburb gun owners a while back. I contacted the DE AG office at the time and was told that under no circumstances could our information be given out except via LE.

In a way, I'm happy DE doesn't publish the numbers. If they started where would it begin and end. State wide grand total, county totals or street totals. Once part of the data can be accessed more and more tends to leak out these days.

Clarence

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Re: # of DE CCWers over the years?
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2014, 11:31:44 AM »
Delaware's Constitution protects CCDW permit holders personal information and it can't be made public. This protects us individually from targeting groups like the one who mapped and published NY suburb gun owners a while back. I contacted the DE AG office at the time and was told that under no circumstances could our information be given out except via LE.

In a way, I'm happy DE doesn't publish the numbers. If they started where would it begin and end. State wide grand total, county totals or street totals. Once part of the data can be accessed more and more tends to leak out these days.
Good point.
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RetCapt1994

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Re: # of DE CCWers over the years?
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2014, 11:41:42 PM »
These stats are not current. I have tried to get current info but failed.
As of Aug.4,2013 there are 8,770 active CCW permits in DE.

Since Jan.2013 2,156 CCW permits have been issued.

Total 2012 CCW permits issued 1,563 have been issued.

Total 2007 CCW permits issued 407.

Half of all current CCW permits in DE are issued in New Castle Co. I wish the stats could be more current but at this time this what I have. Regards to all at DECCW.
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Clarence

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Re: # of DE CCWers over the years?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2014, 12:21:11 AM »
Thanks Retcap1994!

Quite a jump from 2007!
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Cbmarine

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Re: # of DE CCWers over the years?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2014, 07:43:16 PM »
These stats are not current. I have tried to get current info but failed.
As of Aug.4,2013 there are 8,770 active CCW permits in DE.

Since Jan.2013 2,156 CCW permits have been issued.

Total 2012 CCW permits issued 1,563 have been issued.

Total 2007 CCW permits issued 407.

Half of all current CCW permits in DE are issued in New Castle Co. I wish the stats could be more current but at this time this what I have. Regards to all at DECCW.

So, almost half of the permits were issued in the 19 months from Jan12 to Aug13 (2156+1563)/8770 = 42%. Issuance rate appears to be capped at about 125/month (1563/12 = 130, 2156/19 = 113). Extrapolating, 125 permits/month * 15 months = 1875 permits. So, permit holders are about 1 in 100 Delawareans.  IIRC, some states run as high as 1 in 10.  Then again, we are not talkin about HI, NJ etc. Keep recruiting! It would be interesting to see what the renewal rate is. 
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Paladin4CA

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Re: # of DE CCWers over the years?
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2014, 07:55:17 PM »
Delaware's Constitution protects CCDW permit holders personal information and it can't be made public. This protects us individually from targeting groups like the one who mapped and published NY suburb gun owners a while back. I contacted the DE AG office at the time and was told that under no circumstances could our information be given out except via LE.

In a way, I'm happy DE doesn't publish the numbers. If they started where would it begin and end. State wide grand total, county totals or street totals. Once part of the data can be accessed more and more tends to leak out these days.
Under a "Shall Issue" system, keeping applications confidential is GREAT. Under "May Issue," it prevents interested parties from seeing if the permits are being issued or denied in accordance w/the US Constitution's 14th Amendment "equal protection of the laws" requirement. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Protection_Clause

In CA, this has been a major issue. Issuing authorities (in CA, CLEOs: many CoPs and all 58 sheriffs), each with their own CCW policies, were able to hide what "Good Causes" (GCs) they accepted and what GCs they denied. Because of this, many suspected CLEOs of issuing to friends, campaign contributors/political supporters, celebrities, etc. with GCs that were "weaker" than "average people" whom they denied. The below 2 cases opened up those application records to CA's Public Records Act (PRA) requests and exposed corrupt issuance practices violating the 14th A EP clause.

Guillory v. Gates (1984): http://californiaconcealedcarry.com/legal/guillory.html

CBS v. Block (1986): http://californiaconcealedcarry.com/legal/cbs.html

Like I said, if/when DE goes "Shall Issue" there will be no need to review applications for illegal issuance practices. Until then, if you suspect unequal treatment in DE's CCW issuance practices, you should use FOIA to see if there's a basis for a federal lawsuit.

The DE equivalent of CA's PRA your FOIA: http://www.delaware.gov/topics/foia
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Paladin4CA

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Re: # of DE CCWers over the years?
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2014, 08:42:39 PM »
This makes me think - why don't we make THIS an actual organization?  Then we could organize - come together as one group to maybe make a difference!  Even things like education...  The OP asked about what we are doing to increase CCDW holder number.  Why don't we work with FFLs in the state and maybe set up info booths at different shops from time to time.  At least we could be asking the question "Do you have a CCDW permit?  If not, why?"...

I do think that increased numbers send a message.  

Just some thoughts after reading the thread!
By the sound of it, you guys have been passively hoping things will slowly improve (or at least not get worse). IMHO you can't count on that anymore. The NRA spent $25M in this last election cycle. Bloomberg spent $50M -- twice as much as the NRA!

Bloomberg also said this past week that they'll be focusing on the state (and local?) level now, since the Repubs now control the US Senate and increased their control i the House. They want to do to other states what they did in WA state. IOW, don't count on slipping under the radar anymore.

Here's some help that took me less than 15 minutes to gather (but a lot longer to post...):

1st Priority:

DE IDPA club: http://www.idpa.com/clubprofile/bridgevillerifleandpistolclub
DE IPSC/USPSA clubs: select DE at: http://www.uspsa.org/locate-uspsa-clubs.php
You'll find two USPSA clubs w/contact info. They both appear to be out-of-state, but that does not matter since you're after the DEians who go there to compete/train.

You need to make up fliers (even if they are small "business card fliers"), to hand out to folks who compete in these types of matches. These can be simple fliers made w/MSWord and printed out on a home printer. Fancy is not necessary, be brief, to the point and point to an online source of more info.

Folks at these matches are the ones MOST likely to want a DE CCW and to actually follow through and get one (i.e., "low hanging fruit"). Even if they are LEOs and say they don't need one, mention (in person or on the flier), that their spouse, parents, siblings, or children might be interested and so to pass the info along to them.

2nd Priority:

Speaking of LEOs, don't forget PPC matches:
http://ppc.nra.org/
http://ppc.nra.org/ppc.aspx
http://tpc.nra.org/

Again, w/LEOs, they've got theirs, so you have to explain why they should be interested (spouse, parents, siblings, or children).

3rd Priority:

Put fliers up at ALL shooting ranges (indoor and outdoor) in DE.
From: http://wheretoshoot.org/Find_Range/index.asp
    Brandywine Hundred Rod & Gun Club, Middletown DE 19709
    Delaware Rifle & Pistol Club, Inc., Elsmere DE 19805
    Bridgeville Rifle & Pistol Club, Bridgeville DE 19933
    Broadkiln Spotsmans Club, Milton DE 19968
    Delaware State Pistol Club, New Castle DE 19720
    Delaware State Skeet Shtg Assn, Dover Air Force Base DE 19902
    Eagle Wing Skeet & Sporting Clays, Dover Afb DE 19902
    J.D. Defense, Georgetown DE 19947
    Marshtown Hunting Preserve and Kennels, Dover DE 19901
    Mercury Gun Club, Wilmington DE 19810
    Nanticoke Sportsmen Club, Inc., Seaford DE 19973
    New Castle 100 Archers, Newark DE 19702
    Old Hitch Outfitters, Laurel DE 19956
    Ommelanden Hunter Education Training Center, New Castle DE 19720
    Owens Station Sporting Clays, Greenwood DE 19950
    Shooters Choice, Inc., Dover DE 19901
    Silver Lake Sportsmens Club, Lincoln DE 19960
    TCA Pheasantry, Middletown DE 19709
    Wilmington Trapshooting Association, Newark DE 19702

Also ck out: http://findnra.nra.org/ and select Places to Shoot

4th Priority:

Leave a stack of business card fliers at ALL local gun shops (LGSs) and stores that sell guns and/or ammo. LGSs are usually easier since the owner/manager is usually onsite during normal business hours so you can explain how it is in their business interests (guns, ammo, holster sales), as well as political interests to get more DEians to CCW.

***

You've only got 3 counties. If you get 4 activists per county, that should be plenty to cover the entire state for the 1st and 2nd priorities. You only need 12 DECCWers to do those. Someone good w/logistics to figure out who can hit what on their way to or from work, on the weekends, etc. can make it easy to divide up work evenly. They will also decide (learning by experience), how many fliers/cards to leave at each location and how often. Retirees and students (even HS students who can drive), can really help out. Hopefully, as you get the word out, more DEians will be willing to help out and you can hit the lower priority targets.

Speaking of students, they might be able to get HS or college credit for participating in this, for Civics/Political Sci/other classes. They are being volunteer civil rights activists defending our 2nd Amendment rights under the Bill of Rights!

You guys are, relatively, close to the NRA's national headquarters. Get in touch w/them, explain that you want to increase the number of DE CCWers and see what they say. Couldn't hurt. But just make sure you're not transformed into merely an NRA outreach program. Keep focused.

Increasing the number of DE CCWers will increase the number of DEians who have a vested interest in protecting all your rights protected by the 2nd A. Hopefully, they'll help you guys roll back the hurdles against getting CCWs and that will help you increase your numbers even more. It will help influence local and state politics and may even spill over in whom you send to the US Senate and House. IOW, this is a LOT better use of your time, money, and effort than sitting around watching TV....

Please do this, or something!

Respectfully, P4CA
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 10:02:08 PM by Paladin4CA »
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lems902

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Re: # of DE CCWers over the years?
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2014, 09:46:44 PM »
This makes me think - why don't we make THIS an actual organization?  Then we could organize - come together as one group to maybe make a difference!  Even things like education...  The OP asked about what we are doing to increase CCDW holder number.  Why don't we work with FFLs in the state and maybe set up info booths at different shops from time to time.  At least we could be asking the question "Do you have a CCDW permit?  If not, why?"...

I do think that increased numbers send a message. 

Just some thoughts after reading the thread!

Back to my original post on this thread (piggybacking off of P4CA's post above)...I would love to help with the organization of something like P4CA suggested - and in making THIS group a more proactive in spreading the word about the benefits of CCW, and increase the number of CCW holders in the state.

My professional background is primarily Logistics and Operations, with a good amount of time spent on training & development as well.  I imagine with this group there is enough background to get something started.  That being said, again, I would love to assist with anyone else interested!

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