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Author Topic: Constitutional carry in de. (Delete if not allowed)  (Read 5346 times)
SturmRugerSR9
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« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2017, 05:50:49 PM »

Open Carry not permitted in City of Dover, without a Concealed Carry Permit. I have read that some people have gotten written permission from the former Police Chief Hosfelt to open carry there.
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I'D RATHER HAVE A GUN IN MY HANDS, THAN A COP ON THE PHONE!

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NormH3
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« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2017, 09:09:39 PM »

Open Carry not permitted in City of Dover, without a Concealed Carry Permit. I have read that some people have gotten written permission from the former Police Chief Hosfelt to open carry there.

That's not true any longer and hasn't been for about a year.
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LostM
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« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2017, 06:07:12 PM »

My point is that if you are going to carry at all, you're going to have to meet higher standards for personal responsibility, situational awareness, and personal judgment. Unfortunately not all people who own guns are responsible notwithstanding their ability to pass an NICS check after filling out a 4473.

Sure, what is your "higher standard"?  What part of the Constitution dictates the authority to set and manage any higher standard? Who's "higher standard" do we go by, yours or mine, the 85 year old thats been through hell and back, can think faster than any of us but cant move that fast, or the 18 year old 2 year in Army Ranger that can move 10x as fast as they can think critically?

If you want some form of infringement, apply it to OC, again, if you are broadcasting to the world you are armed, you better be 100% alert and proficient when your outside of your home. That is when you should be held to a higher standard
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oldgraygeek
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« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2017, 06:24:06 PM »

I accept the existence (likely to continue) of training requirements for concealed carry.
However, as both a 2nd Amendment purist and a capital-L Leftist, I am opposed to any requirement that costs money to exercise a Constitutional right.

To me, the cost of the application fee, fingerprinting, newspaper ad, and required training are a "poll tax" that unfairly deprives the poor of their 2nd Amendment rights.
If a state wants to require any expenditure for a permit, even just a fee to apply for it, that should be banned by federal preemption of state gun laws.
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Cbmarine
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« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2017, 07:56:28 PM »

The "higher standard" is what you could face before a judge and jury. Cribbing from Andrew Branca's Law of Self Defense, how would you measure up to the principles of Innocence, Imminence (AOJ), Avoidance (+P), Proportionality, and Reasonableness. Were you bound by Duty to Retreat or protected by Stand Your Ground? Were you in a No Carry zone? This considerations extend well beyond situation awareness and proficiency.
You can argue that Vermont's Constitutional Carry has worked well but will that extend to other states?
Personal responsibilty and judgment are not always stellar in the general population. Does everyone who picks a gun and goes to town thinking about the ramifications? When the situation escalates, are you aware of and apply AOJ+P APJ+P? Not if you are oblivious.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 04:38:31 PM by Cbmarine » Logged

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LostM
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« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2017, 11:23:45 AM »

The "higher standard" is what you could face before a judge and jury. Cribbing from Andrew Branca's Law of Self Defense, how would you measure up to the principles of Innocence, Imminence (AOJ), Avoidance (+P), Proportionality, and Reasonableness. Were you bound by Duty to Retreat or protected by Stand Your Ground? Were you in a No Carry zone? This considerations extend well beyond situation awareness and proficiency.
You can argue that Vermont's Constitutional Carry has worked well but will that extend to other states?
Personal responsibilty and judgment are not always stellar in the general population. Does everyone who picks a gun and goes to town thinking about the ramifications? When the situation escalates, are you aware of and apply APJ+P? Not if you are oblivious.

A- A jury can nullify any of those if they feel like it
B- Branca's law is a real law, or his interpretation of a law?
C- How would you measure up given the no one can forsee the accurate future?
D- Retreat or stand your ground - Jury nullification again
E - No carry zone - Jury Nullification -
F - NOTHING goes beyond situation awareness, you cant bring up the 1st 5 parts as a point only to say its beyond SA- What you pointed to, is exactly what SA is.
G - Exactly what part of the 2A states ANY of that is required?

back to the point, Everyone wants to impose their opinion on everybody else, for the "good of the community".  If you worried about APJ+P, than that is the ONLY pre-requisite for a CCW, online, and free. simple, live and let live
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Cbmarine
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« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2017, 06:22:48 PM »

@LostM. My post was simply advice and perspective not a pre-requisite for carrying a firearm iaw the 2nd Amendment.  I support your RKBA. Carry safe.
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Sigarms12
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« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2017, 04:53:51 PM »

you have a better chance of seeing the CCW Reciprocity Act before DE enacts constitutional carry.
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SturmRugerSR9
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« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2017, 07:24:28 AM »

I have a feeling that even with the many co-sponsors of HB 38 and S 446, and the fact that Trump said he will sign The National Concealed carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 into law, that Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell will not let these bill come to the floor for an up or down vote. Bills will die in committees once again this year.
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I'D RATHER HAVE A GUN IN MY HANDS, THAN A COP ON THE PHONE!

I reserve the right to not be perfect.

PROTECT THE 2ND AMENDMENT!

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Obleo
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« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2017, 09:19:30 AM »

I don't believe the long held requirement to obtain a permit is based on political leaning. There was, and is, a constituent that carries illegally for nefarious reasons.  The permit process aids LE by providing an additional strong charge to discourage unlawful behavior.  So, similar to OldGray, I accept the current process.
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CorBon
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« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2017, 02:19:27 PM »

I am not sure how "strong" that charge is, considering the number of folks arrested for that charge -- and the fact that it seems to be the first charge either thrown out or pled down.

I'm fine with the current system, but I do wonder about the changes that have occurred in that process.  For example, I don't recall high levels of ridiculous CCW activity before the training requirement was implemented.

So, as I've said before -- as bad as some may think that our system is, tinkering with it is most likely to result in no-carry zones, including the dreaded "signs" fiasco, and possibly other restrictions/problems.  Remember, the boys and girls in Dover aren't smart enough to make things better ...
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Very few guns are actually "illegal guns."  A gun misappropriated by a criminal is no more of an "illegal gun" than a stolen car is an "illegal car."
LostM
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« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2017, 01:57:04 PM »

Frankly, I'm not a fan of constitutional carry.  Just because one is able to buy a gun and carry it however s/he wants to in a constitutional carry state, it doesn't mean that s/he is safe or qualified to do so.  Trust me, I have a few friends that are gun owners that I cringe at the thought of them carrying a weapon for a myriad or reasons. 


I agree but as a friend when I see another friend that is carrying or talking about it I do my best to help them do the right thing.  I have brought a few anti gunners to the light here recently.  All it takes is that first shot they fire if they put it down and walk away then you know they are not going to do it.  But when they just keep pulling the trigger with a big grin on their face and I get the wow that was fun.  It was all worth it i have yet to have one just fire one shot. 


When you think about it, Delaware already has Constitutional carry in the way of Open carry. Anyone not prohibited can already purchase a handgun and carry it on their hip.

exactly. you cannot be for open carry and oppose constitutional carry. putting a 1mm thick piece of cloth over the weapon changes no creator endowed, constitutionally enumerated rights
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Clarence
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« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2017, 03:04:53 PM »

I don't understand gun owners who would be against Constitutional Carry.  This is the goal we should all be working toward.  There is too much fear of "what if". 

How can mandatory training and license fees not be an "infringement"

I could almost see this mentality years ago, but we now have 12 diverse states with permitless concealed carry and there have been no issues. The sky has not fallen. Just like it didn't when "shall issue" was rolling out.

Bottom line is individual responsibility. 
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Just Bill
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« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2017, 04:34:27 PM »

Our requirements are a bit cumbersome, but when you get that permit, we know you at least understand which end the bullet comes out of.  Not necessarily so with 'no permit required'.  I also know that I am most likely a better shot than those carrying illegally.

BT
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Adrenolin
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« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2017, 05:18:41 PM »

I'm all for Constitutional Carry. Anyone who hasn't been extremely sheltered knows how and what a handgun does and 2 minutes on the Internet shows how they function. There will always be idiots, there will always be morons, there will always be accidents but the people shouldn't be restricted from ownership or the ability to protect themselves because of those people... Even though those people could be a threat not just to themselves but to us as well. I've always been against safety laws that restricts the general public in someway because of a small minority of brilliant people. I agree with Clarence that we should all be looking towards the right to own and carry anywhere we want without a permit with vsry few exceptions.
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