Delaware Concealed Carry Forum
April 26, 2018, 05:58:54 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: U of D concealed carry  (Read 1437 times)
coolwrld
Member
***
Posts: 55



« on: July 21, 2017, 07:33:33 AM »

So I have looked through the forums as well as doing some research online regarding concealed carry on U of D property and as is typical everything seems conflicting.  So I came across this link directly on the U of D website - http://sites.udel.edu/generalcounsel/policies/possession-and-use-of-firearms-on-university-property/.

In section III it clearly states that the policy applies to everyone (students, faculty, general public etc..) regardless of CCW permit holder status.  Further under section IV-C it references possible civil or criminal proceedings for violations of the policy.  So here are my questions/thoughts:

I certainly get if you are a student or faculty member there are definite repercussions expulsion from school, lose of job etc... but for the general public how could their be any civil or criminal violations possible?  I mean if a no gun sign has no force of law behind it how can this policy have any force of law behind it?  I mean I get if you are part of the general public and are asked by Campus police to leave and you don't at that point there could be trespassing related issues. But, beyond being asked to leave how could there be any civil or criminal ramifications against a CCW permit holder member of the general public?
Logged

DE - CCDW Permit Holder
PA - N/R CCDW Permit Holder
NRA Life Member
New Castle County
NormH3
Life Member
*****
Posts: 285


« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2017, 07:38:20 AM »

If they ask you to leave their property and you don't, Police can be notified and therein lies the ability to arrest you.
Logged
coolwrld
Member
***
Posts: 55



« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2017, 08:51:03 AM »

If they ask you to leave their property and you don't, Police can be notified and therein lies the ability to arrest you.


Right but even being U of D police if they saw I was concealing and asked me to leave and I did they can't detain me or arrest me correct?  I mean reading that clause in their policy to me implies they have full police powers to arrest on some kind of civil or criminal grounds.
Logged

DE - CCDW Permit Holder
PA - N/R CCDW Permit Holder
NRA Life Member
New Castle County
Clarence
Life Member
*****
Posts: 1006


Liberty and Independence


« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2017, 02:44:38 PM »

If they ask you to leave their property and you don't, Police can be notified and therein lies the ability to arrest you.


Right but even being U of D police if they saw I was concealing and asked me to leave and I did they can't detain me or arrest me correct?  I mean reading that clause in their policy to me implies they have full police powers to arrest on some kind of civil or criminal grounds.
UofD police do have full arrest powers. 
Logged

DE PA VA AZ FL ccw. NRA Life Member.

For slavery fled, O glorious dead, When you fell in the foggy dew.
coolwrld
Member
***
Posts: 55



« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2017, 07:03:24 AM »

If they ask you to leave their property and you don't, Police can be notified and therein lies the ability to arrest you.


Right but even being U of D police if they saw I was concealing and asked me to leave and I did they can't detain me or arrest me correct?  I mean reading that clause in their policy to me implies they have full police powers to arrest on some kind of civil or criminal grounds.
UofD police do have full arrest powers. 

Does that mean they can arrest you for something that is a violation of U of D policy but not a violation of state/federal law or does that mean they can arrest you for violation of state/federal law on U of D property? 
Logged

DE - CCDW Permit Holder
PA - N/R CCDW Permit Holder
NRA Life Member
New Castle County
Clarence
Life Member
*****
Posts: 1006


Liberty and Independence


« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2017, 07:47:06 AM »

You can be arrested for a crime. You can get a traffic ticket by UofD police.  You cannot be arrested for violating a policy, but as a visitor you can be told to leave and if you don't, you can be arrested for trespassing.  As for state law, yes.  Not sure about federal law.  IANAL but for instance don't think you could be arrested for federal crimes like insider stock trading or immigration issues. 
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 07:50:17 AM by Clarence » Logged

DE PA VA AZ FL ccw. NRA Life Member.

For slavery fled, O glorious dead, When you fell in the foggy dew.
29thInfantry
Life Member
*****
Posts: 693



« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2017, 04:38:46 PM »

The issue with the U of D is it is all over the place I think it has taken over most of the town.  As a non student I would carry there and make sure that I was carrying properly so not to draw any attention to myself.  I have been there for festivals and when they had the Newark PD walking around giving hugs to people.  I have never had an issue even when standing right next to Newark PD talking to them on that day or any other.  I do not go off roaming around on campus either just mainly on main st and have never had a problem. 
Logged

NRA Member
US Army Vet.
Delaware CCDWP
PA LTCF
Child of God
coolwrld
Member
***
Posts: 55



« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2017, 05:24:57 PM »

The issue with the U of D is it is all over the place I think it has taken over most of the town.  As a non student I would carry there and make sure that I was carrying properly so not to draw any attention to myself.  I have been there for festivals and when they had the Newark PD walking around giving hugs to people.  I have never had an issue even when standing right next to Newark PD talking to them on that day or any other.  I do not go off roaming around on campus either just mainly on main st and have never had a problem. 

This is the same scenario I am talking about but not necessarily a situation where I'm on Main St. and may "stray" on to U of D property.  I attend a lot of car related events and some of them take place on actual U of D property.  One in particular takes place at the UD Creamery and this past weekend there was another at the old Chrysler plant (called Star campus now I think).  So my main concern is that the way they have specifically worded the policy they reference criminal charges.  But besides trespass for not leaving if asked (should I fail miserably at concealing and be found out), how could there possibly be other criminal charges that could be brought against me by the U of D police since I am only violating UD policy and not state law?
Logged

DE - CCDW Permit Holder
PA - N/R CCDW Permit Holder
NRA Life Member
New Castle County
29thInfantry
Life Member
*****
Posts: 693



« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2017, 06:07:44 PM »

The issue with the U of D is it is all over the place I think it has taken over most of the town.  As a non student I would carry there and make sure that I was carrying properly so not to draw any attention to myself.  I have been there for festivals and when they had the Newark PD walking around giving hugs to people.  I have never had an issue even when standing right next to Newark PD talking to them on that day or any other.  I do not go off roaming around on campus either just mainly on main st and have never had a problem. 

This is the same scenario I am talking about but not necessarily a situation where I'm on Main St. and may "stray" on to U of D property.  I attend a lot of car related events and some of them take place on actual U of D property.  One in particular takes place at the UD Creamery and this past weekend there was another at the old Chrysler plant (called Star campus now I think).  So my main concern is that the way they have specifically worded the policy they reference criminal charges.  But besides trespass for not leaving if asked (should I fail miserably at concealing and be found out), how could there possibly be other criminal charges that could be brought against me by the U of D police since I am only violating UD policy and not state law?

I think you would most likely just be asked to leave.  There is no law prohibiting you from carrying there that I am aware of it is only their policy as it is in many places like say the NCC farmers market but I still carry there when I go there now a days I like to go to booths corners farmers market it is way nicer and better food.  Most people are to interested in what they are doing to worry about you having a gun under your shirt.  Most have their faces buried in their phones.   
Logged

NRA Member
US Army Vet.
Delaware CCDWP
PA LTCF
Child of God
Obleo
Life Member
*****
Posts: 953



« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2017, 02:07:29 PM »

It might not be too much of stretch to consider risk management.  An avoidance policy is appropriate in this case.  Should I attempt to renew my CCDW in Delaware and have to report an arrest, whether its legal or not, it may leave the AG in a tight spot.  If a huge business, that pays cops salaries, says no then I'm not carrying. They win on brute size alone.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 02:09:05 PM by Obleo » Logged

Proud resident of Kent County DE
Capnball
Member
***
Posts: 90


« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2017, 07:51:26 AM »

I tend to avoid places that are "Gun-Free-Zones" as much as possible. Some interesting research that I recently came across regarding what the FBI refers to as "Mass Shooting Events" These would be events where 4 or more innocents were killed excluding the shooter. Of the 165 Active Shooter Events since Columbine in 1999, 48 of these events have been classified as "Mass shooting Events" by the FBI due to the number of deaths. 80% of these events occurred in Educational Facilities or Private Business. 85% of these locations were Gun Free Zones by law or by policies established by the business. Only 15% of the events occurred in locations that were not clearly posted or had no known policy against citizen self-protection. Clearly, even the seriously mentally deranged killer usually has enough mental capacity to select the softest targets. An example given was the Aurora Colorado movie theater shooter. He had a selection of 7 movie theaters all playing the same movie during the same week. All of these where within a 20 minute drive of his home. In fact, one theater was actually within walking distance. The theater he selected was the only one of the 7 that was posted as a Gun Free Zone. Avoidance is probably the best course of action. However, if you must go, consider your options and possible outcomes if your firearm should be accidentally noticed. If you could be arrested leave the gun at home or locked in a vault in you vehicle. If it is a location where you would be simply asked to leave, do so without saying anything to anyone. And yes... the research does indicate that fighting back with or without a firearm in these situations does affect the outcome and can save lives, contrary to some who believe that only "professionals" can stop these crazies and the mayhem the produce.
Logged
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!