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Author Topic: Not Time For Compromise?  (Read 1699 times)
Clarence
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« on: October 07, 2017, 03:00:30 PM »

I read this on another board.  I did not write this but I am putting it out here for discussion:


This is not a time to compromise.

Who are we trying to appease? The democrats who have no control over any branch of government?

These last elections were a clear message. America does not want the left and their vision of America.

As for trying to appease the anti-gunners, I could understand having to make a deal of the president were a Democrat, or they controlled any of the other two branches. They don't.

We shouldn't be giving up bump stocks. Are they dumb? Sure. Would I ever buy one? No. This is not the time to make a deal with a group who has nothing to give back.

If there was a handshake and we would be trading bump stocks for the SHARE act, or even the repeal of the NFA ENTIRELY, sure, we could maybe entertain having that discussion.

But right now what do we get in return? Nothing.

I don't give one fraction of one **** about hunting, bolt action rifles, lever guns, single shots, trap/skeet, or any of that crap. They are all toys. Fun toys, but toys.

I care about Americans having the ability to own military style, combat grade weaponry. Are bump stocks that? Not really. But if the NRA is willing to give up something like a bump stock when the Republicans control all three branches of government, what happens when there is ANY type of real pressure? Then what?

Do we give up the ability of any citizen to own any full auto weapon at all? What about short barrels? Silencers? Then what's next? Magazine capacity limits? Detachable magazines? Semi auto firearms? Handguns? All guns? Where does it end?

We should be on the offensive. Not clutching our pearls and fainting on the couch at the first sign of any pressure at all.

It's time to eliminate unconstitutional legislation. To repeal the NFA. To repeal the GCA. Repeal the FOPA.

I don't care what the democrats or media has to say. I don't care if it makes Kimmel or Colbert cry. It doesn't matter to me at all. They are not here to have a discussion. They are here to take our guns, death by a thousand cuts.

Anyone who thinks we should be respectful of the democrats and try to reach across the aisle is delusional. They want to talk about "common sense" gun control and "reasonable restrictions." No they don't. The first chance they get, they will do everything they can to disarm us.

If this were the other way around, and Democrats held all three branches of government and had a majority liberal Supreme Court, you can kiss the 2A goodbye entirely. If that ever happens, America will be a country full of disarmed subjects, just like every other European country.

We are in control, we elected our people into all three branches of government, and even the Supreme Court is looking good too.

If there was a gun to our head, and we HAD to make a deal that was an overall net benefit to the 2A, sure.

This isn't that time. Now is the time we attack.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 03:02:42 PM by Clarence » Logged

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For slavery fled, O glorious dead, When you fell in the foggy dew.
muleman88
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2017, 04:19:58 PM »

I mostly agree , their running on feelings not facts.. I had a conversation with a 3/4 lib today at work and he insisted we have to do something  after this horrible event? I ask what ?? He said well we should have a lic to buy a gun just like a lic to drive a car , then we should register our guns so they know who owns what . (Pssst  they already know if bought legally) . Then he goes on about bump stops . Personally I never knew what they were until now . But I ask him so if we make all this illegal that would protect us? He thought and replied yes. Then I ask isnít it already illegal to shoot people ? ( yesss) so i added if CRIMINALS donít follow the law now what makes you think they will follow more laws?? At that point his attitude changed and he looked at me and said your right ! I then explained we have to have a lic to drive a car and cars kill way more people than guns so why donít we outlaw cars? He sorta argued that he thought guns kill more people than cars . I didnít know the #s but Iím very confident Iím correct . Anyhow I added personally I donít think a tool or laws will stop crazy people and in my soul I believe we have a society problem ( broken families, working like wild people to stay ahead, kids canít be corrected without worry of the state ... on and on) . In the end I felt like we both agreed thereís no easy fix or that another law will protect us . So I thought it was a positive debate .
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Cbmarine
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2017, 06:29:09 PM »

The post reads like a rant.
"Repeal FOPA"? The law that allows us to travel with our equipment through anti-gun states? What?

"Democrats held all three branches of government and had a majority liberal Supreme Court, you can kiss the 2A goodbye entirely"?  Doing away with the 2nd Amendment entirely requires another amendment to the Constitution.  A Constitutional amendment must pass both houses of Congress by a two-thirds majority and ratified by 3/4 of the States (a State convention can also amend the Constitution).

Bump stocks? IMO, that was a mistake by the BAFTE under the Obama administration. Using a design mindset, they reckoned that the bump stock didn't materially alter the weapon. If they had taken a systems approach where the weapons systems is observed outside the "box", the performance is close to automatic fire.  Personally, I'm not willing to dig in my heels and defend bump stocks.
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Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.
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Clarence
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2017, 07:36:04 PM »

I had to scratch my head about the FOPA comment to until I realized that he is probably referring to the Hughs Amendment that was tacked on and banned new machine gun registrations after 1986.  
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 07:40:26 PM by Clarence » Logged

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For slavery fled, O glorious dead, When you fell in the foggy dew.
Radnor
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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2017, 05:05:08 AM »

35,000 vehicle deaths in 2015  http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-statistics/fatalityfacts/state-by-state-overview

33,000 opioid deaths https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/statedeaths.html

88,000 alcohol deaths  https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm

480,000 tobacco deaths   https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/index.htm
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muleman88
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« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2017, 06:51:01 AM »

35,000 vehicle deaths in 2015  http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-statistics/fatalityfacts/state-by-state-overview

33,000 opioid deaths https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/statedeaths.html

88,000 alcohol deaths  https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm

480,000 tobacco deaths   https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/index.htm
Thanks Radnor.
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Radnor
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2017, 08:05:13 AM »

 Grin

Where's the outrage on the others??

Any time brother.

10,497 killed by DUI   https://www.madd.org/
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 08:16:04 AM by Radnor » Logged

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Personal Protection Outside The Home, Home Firearm Safety,
and Reloading

Also offer Delaware CCDW training.  PM me for details.
Cbmarine
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2017, 01:10:48 PM »

Grin

Where's the outrage on the others??
...
Itís easy, they donít own guns (or if they do, they wonít admit it)

Two Communist comrades having a discussion
Igor: Ivan, if you had two houses, you give me one house?
Ivan: Ya, Comrade Igor
Igor: Ivan, if you had two cars, you give me one car?
Ivan: Ya, Comrade Igor
Igor: Ivan, if you had two pigs, you give me one pigs?
Ivan: Nyet, Comrade Igor, I have two pigs!

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NormH3
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2017, 03:07:30 PM »

I fear that this is creating a division. I follow Hikok45 and many have posted their displeasure with him and the NRA for the stance they are taking. Saw quite a few claiming they are canceling their NRA memberships and going elsewhere. Cutting off their nose to spite their face comes to mind.
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rikwick
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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2017, 06:23:49 PM »

Personally I think I'd rather have suppressors and national reciprocity than a bump stock.  It could be looked at that having bump stocks regulated by the ATF is a good political move of the part of the NRA. They (we) are hit on all sides, everyone and everything that you can think of (media, politicians, entertainment, protestors...) has blamed the NRA.  Now they get away with this only because many people allow these forces to be their education.  So even our "innocently ignorant" friends and family and their friends and family and so on and so on...is a another hit.    Anyway, to be honest I think of a bump stock as a novelty item, and up until this shooting I didn't think of them at all.   If the NRA decides to take a hard stand for a novelty item, they (we) could end up falling on our sword. If we should die I at least want it to be worthy!   I could go on, but before you disagree think about my position and also I am not saying that other views are invalid by any means.

One last thing,  even if the majority do disagree with the NRA's position,  is this something worth canceling membership over?   I still think the NRA does more good than the mistakes it has made.   We need to strengthen it in case this is a mistake so that we have the means to recover.   Our enemies will see our displeasure with the NRA and capitalize on the division and weakness.  We should never show our hand to those that will use it to slap us.

 



  
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 04:04:55 AM by rikwick » Logged
Clarence
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« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2017, 03:13:15 AM »

I think those who are quitting are wrong.  We need a strong NRA. 

I personally think these bump stocks are ridiculous waste ammo and even dangerous. Question is how far do
We go?  I think giving them anything will just wet their appetites for more.

That is how we got the Brady Bill.
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For slavery fled, O glorious dead, When you fell in the foggy dew.
SturmRugerSR9
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« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2017, 05:11:13 AM »

I am a gun owner (7) and a member of the NRA also. BUT, I also believe there is NO NEED for anyone to have a fully automatic (machine) gun, or a silencer. If you are sensitive to the noise of gunfire, put on your noise suppressing head phones. something all of us should have to range shoot indoors or out.
Just my opinion........
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Packing_Nine
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« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2017, 06:13:17 AM »

...I also believe there is NO NEED for anyone to have a fully automatic (machine) gun, or a silencer.

Sure, I'm going to wear my hearing protection. Every time. But what if I'm practicing at the neighbor's farm, and the family who lives across the way dislikes the sound of gunfire? I would want to own a suppressed .22, simply in the interest of preserving the peace for others around me. It's not just about my needs or rights, but of those in my community too.
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CorBon
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« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2017, 01:48:33 PM »

The NRA has always been divided, and it will always continue to be divided.  Basically, you always have one bunch that says ďthat stuff over there doesnít affect me, and I donít care about it ó so they can ban it.Ē  And then you have the other side, who not only has to convince society that this isnít a problem, but also the other side of the NRA to deal with.

It really gets a bit old, having so many people still believing that theyíre not trying to come for all of our stuff.  Pelosi even said so.

Compromising with the Demmies on this stuff is best stated as: them asking for 100% today, them compromising on taking only 50% tonight, and then having them showing up in the morning to start discussing the other 50%.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 01:58:38 PM by CorBon » Logged

Very few guns are actually "illegal guns."  A gun misappropriated by a criminal is no more of an "illegal gun" than a stolen car is an "illegal car."
muleman88
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« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2017, 02:07:18 PM »

The NRA has always been divided, and it will always continue to be divided.  Basically, you always have one bunch that says ďthat stuff over there doesnít affect me, and I donít care about it ó so they can ban it.Ē  And then you have the other side, who not only has to convince society that this isnít a problem, but also the other side of the NRA to deal with.

It really gets a bit old, having so many people still believing that theyíre not trying to come for all of our stuff.  Pelosi even said so.

Compromising with the Demmies on this stuff is best stated as: them asking for 100% today, them compromising on taking only 50% tonight, and then having them showing up in the morning to start discussing the other 50%.
Very true . Iím positive bump stops are only another steppingstone just as the libs already admit . They will NEVER stop taking all they can .
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