Author Topic: Looks Like DE Supreme Ct Struck Down Ban on Carry in State Parks/Forests  (Read 8756 times)

topper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Looks Like DE Supreme Ct Struck Down Ban on Carry in State Parks/Forests
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2017, 10:49:42 PM »
Let's schedule a picnic in one of the parks come spring time.

Fantastic idea.
Even better: let's do it sometime soon, gather together as many people as we can, and invite the News-Journal to cover it.
Mrs. OGG and I are definitely there...

I'd try and be there as well.

Count me in.
Laws that forbid the carrying of arms…disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…

USAF Vietnam Era Veteran
Army National Guard
Civil Air Patrol
NRA Life Time Member
DE CCW
PA CCW

Clarence

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1672
  • Liberty and Independence
Re: Looks Like DE Supreme Ct Struck Down Ban on Carry in State Parks/Forests
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2017, 01:31:40 AM »
Let's schedule a picnic in one of the parks come spring time.

Fantastic idea.
Even better: let's do it sometime soon, gather together as many people as we can, and invite the News-Journal to cover it.
Mrs. OGG and I are definitely there...

I'd try and be there as well.

Count me in.

According to the dissenters, it's going to be a wild picnic:

"The Regulations serve an important governmental purpose and do not burden appellants’ Section 20 rights more than necessary. When people come together in Parks and Forests for games and recreation, emotions can run high. When folks camp, they sometimes drink,24 including at events within the Parks like beer and wine festivals.25 When folks drink and carouse, they sometimes get jealous and angry. When folks play or attend sporting events, spirits run high and sometimes out of control. When folks get emotional around guns, things can get dangerous fast. When folks camp, there are no gun lockers, and they are near other visitors.26 There are no natural boundaries in Parks and
Forests signaling areas where park-goers can find safety from gunfire or natural barriers that stop flying bullets or arrows. These and other common sense reasons support the decisions of generations of governors and cabinet secretaries that the Regulations advance the public purposes served by our Parks and Forests, and facilitate the safe enjoyment of these public spaces by families and children."

It is laughable except this was actually written by Leo Strine, Chief Justice of the State of Delaware, and he actually thinks like this.   Scary
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 01:45:12 AM by Clarence »
DE MD PA VA FL ccw. NRA Life Member. DSSA member. Sussex County

Quod non me necat me fortiorem facit.

NormH3

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 409
Re: Looks Like DE Supreme Ct Struck Down Ban on Carry in State Parks/Forests
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2017, 02:05:35 AM »
Maybe they should ban "games and recreation" from parks. Seems they are the problem.

topper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Looks Like DE Supreme Ct Struck Down Ban on Carry in State Parks/Forests
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2017, 10:32:58 PM »
Maybe they should ban "games and recreation" from parks. Seems they are the problem.

Maybe they should ban people!
Laws that forbid the carrying of arms…disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…

USAF Vietnam Era Veteran
Army National Guard
Civil Air Patrol
NRA Life Time Member
DE CCW
PA CCW

Clarence

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1672
  • Liberty and Independence
Re: Looks Like DE Supreme Ct Struck Down Ban on Carry in State Parks/Forests
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2017, 10:20:29 AM »
Looks like Governor Carney is looking for a way around this.  http://delawarepublic.org/post/delaware-supreme-court-rules-end-state-parks-gun-ban

It's obvious he never even read the decision as he mentioned the 2nd Amendment.  This decision is of course based on Article 20 of the State Constitution.

The dissenters in the decision made a bizarre assertion that Article 20 was somehow invalid because back in the 1980's the NRA pushed for it.  This is a disturbing idea to come from a Chief Justice.  Thank God this was a minority opinion and carries no weight.  

But the implications of this type of thinking are disturbing to our system of jurisprudence and a threat to the people's democratic right to form grass root organizations for political change. Even "liberals" should see that this could cut both ways
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 08:37:09 PM by Clarence »
DE MD PA VA FL ccw. NRA Life Member. DSSA member. Sussex County

Quod non me necat me fortiorem facit.

groundgrid

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 321
Re: Looks Like DE Supreme Ct Struck Down Ban on Carry in State Parks/Forests
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2017, 08:26:43 PM »
New (temporary) regulations have been issued:

http://www.dnrec.delaware.gov/Info/Documents/Secretarys-Order-No-2017-P-0030.pdf

In short:
Delaware resident + CCDW permit= carry wherever you want to. Just show your permit.
Everyone else can't carry in the specifically designated areas which must be posted as such.
Here’s the real issue: when your religion is government, and government is god, you cannot tolerate any other God before it
(The reason why Liberal/Progressives have waged a war on Christianity)

Clarence

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1672
  • Liberty and Independence
Re: Looks Like DE Supreme Ct Struck Down Ban on Carry in State Parks/Forests
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2017, 08:59:40 PM »
Outrageous!!    I guess we will be back in court.  Looks like out of state residents can't carry and they think that gun carriers need to be background checked.  Wow.  Did they read the decision? What part of the words
"Fundamental right" do they not understand?

They put this through as an "emergency" rule.  Are you kidding?  Law abiding citizens excercising their God given rights is an "emergency"? Wow
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 10:10:38 AM by Clarence »
DE MD PA VA FL ccw. NRA Life Member. DSSA member. Sussex County

Quod non me necat me fortiorem facit.

563jack

  • Guest
Re: Looks Like DE Supreme Ct Struck Down Ban on Carry in State Parks/Forests
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2017, 10:01:14 PM »
Everything I read said that as long as I have a current carry permit I can CCW in any Delaware park or forest. Reading the emergency park rules and just for clarification, do I need to go to the office show my permit then I'm allowed to walk the park, or can I walk the park and not worry about showing my permit unless I'm asked to by a LEO? Who has the right to ask to see my permit? I kind of got the impression that I won't have to do anything unless I'm approached by a LEO. Or maybe I need to read more. On a side note let me know when the party starts at the park. Count me in. Lums Pond sounds like a nice place to do this, with maybe a follow up at Killens than Seashore parks or Trap Pond..

Cbmarine

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1396
  • III Marine Amphib Corps. My dad’s shoulder patch
Re: Looks Like DE Supreme Ct Struck Down Ban on Carry in State Parks/Forests
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2017, 11:07:28 PM »
New (temporary) regulations have been issued:

http://www.dnrec.delaware.gov/Info/Documents/Secretarys-Order-No-2017-P-0030.pdf

In short:
Delaware resident + CCDW permit= carry wherever you want to. Just show your permit.
Everyone else can't carry in the specifically designated areas which must be posted as such.
Not entirely.  This para in F&W regs is unchanged
8.3.4.2   It shall be unlawful for any person to possess a rifled firearm of any description at any time on those lands bordering the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal and licensed to the Department by the Government of the United States for wildlife management purposes, except that muzzleloaders and shotguns with rifle barrels may be used during deer seasons when it is lawful to use those firearms.
Just a smelly deplorable dreg of society clinging to God and guns.
New Castle County
_..  .  _._   _..  ..._ _  .  ._.

topper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Looks Like DE Supreme Ct Struck Down Ban on Carry in State Parks/Forests
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2017, 03:19:03 AM »
21.1.4   Delaware residents holding an active current license to carry a concealed deadly weapon may carry a firearm within areas administered by the Division, including designated areas upon showing the license to Parks authorities.

21.1.7   Any person possessing a firearm shall display identification upon entry and upon request, sufficient to enable a law enforcement officer to undertake a background check.


My question is, do we have to show our license to park personal and then wait for law enforcement to arrive and show it to them and wait for them to do a background check?
Laws that forbid the carrying of arms…disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…

USAF Vietnam Era Veteran
Army National Guard
Civil Air Patrol
NRA Life Time Member
DE CCW
PA CCW

Cbmarine

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1396
  • III Marine Amphib Corps. My dad’s shoulder patch
Re: Looks Like DE Supreme Ct Struck Down Ban on Carry in State Parks/Forests
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2017, 09:43:00 AM »
...
21.1.7   Any person possessing a firearm shall display identification upon entry and upon request, sufficient to enable a law enforcement officer to undertake a background check.

My question is, do we have to show our license to park personal and then wait for law enforcement to arrive and show it to them and wait for them to do a background check?
The key word is “sufficient”. Our permits are sufficient by definition; the State issued them as our ID. Verification by LEO is not required.

Also regarding “on entry”, I have found that Lums Pond entry stations are usually unstaffed. Based on the numbers I have seen, we represent 1 out of 1000 DE residents. I expect that any attendant will not have us
on their radar. This year, I plan to buy a senior park pass and will display both cards “upon entry” if there is anyone to notice.
Just a smelly deplorable dreg of society clinging to God and guns.
New Castle County
_..  .  _._   _..  ..._ _  .  ._.

Just Bill

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1326
Re: Looks Like DE Supreme Ct Struck Down Ban on Carry in State Parks/Forests
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2017, 11:58:26 AM »
So as I unerstan this, you have to wear a sign that says, "I HAVE A GUN"...before you can carry that 'concealed' firearm????  Do these politicians take brilliant pills every morning???  And we will be so much safer, having 'no gun' zones where all the people are.

Bill
NRA Cert. Instructor Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun
NRA Lifer
NRA RSO
DE/PA CCDW permits
AGI certified gunsmith--Cowboy Action/1911/Glock/rifle/pistol/shotgun/rimfire
AGI Firearms Appraiser/FFL 01
AGI certified Master Gunsmith

groundgrid

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 321
Re: Looks Like DE Supreme Ct Struck Down Ban on Carry in State Parks/Forests
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2018, 05:52:46 PM »
Just found out that there is a public hearing tonight regarding the new rules.

   
Public Hearing on Proposed Regulations regarding firearms possession within Delaware state parks, wildlife areas, and state forests.

New Castle County: Thursday, February 15, 6pm, DNREC offices, 391 Lukens Drive, New Castle.


Hope that someone can go.
Here’s the real issue: when your religion is government, and government is god, you cannot tolerate any other God before it
(The reason why Liberal/Progressives have waged a war on Christianity)

Cbmarine

  • Life Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1396
  • III Marine Amphib Corps. My dad’s shoulder patch
Re: Looks Like DE Supreme Ct Struck Down Ban on Carry in State Parks/Forests
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2018, 03:18:46 AM »
The meeting was a workshop which allows a discussion rather than a hearing.  Deputy AG Durstein presented the modified regs. Open carry still permitted except in designated areas. DE CCDW amd concealed carry permit holders from reciprocating states will also be allowed to carry concealed in designated areas which include specific buildings, life-guarded beaches and the Lums Pond campground among others. They dropped the "show permit upon entry" but left in "upon request".  Other workshops will be held followed by the hearing.

Also in attendance were Fish & Wildlife, Agriculture, and State Lands reps.

Mentioned in the presentation was a ban on carry in schools. In a post-presentation discussion, this 'ban' is apparently based not on the law (18 USC 922 q2a-b and 11 Del C. §1457) but on "no guns" signs posted at the individual schools.  The Deputy AG said he would clarify.  
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 03:24:47 AM by Cbmarine »
Just a smelly deplorable dreg of society clinging to God and guns.
New Castle County
_..  .  _._   _..  ..._ _  .  ._.

JonathanG

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
Re: Looks Like DE Supreme Ct Struck Down Ban on Carry in State Parks/Forests
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2018, 02:52:30 PM »
Mentioned in the presentation was a ban on carry in schools. In a post-presentation discussion, this 'ban' is apparently based not on the law (18 USC 922 q2a-b and 11 Del C. §1457) but on "no guns" signs posted at the individual schools.  The Deputy AG said he would clarify.  

So, in essence, there is no "legal ban" because signs don't carry force of law.