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Author Topic: What Modifications do We Make to Carry Guns?  (Read 361 times)
MarcWinkman
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« on: October 29, 2018, 07:47:54 AM »

This is a pretty polarizing topic, but I'll start with what I do with my carry guns.

On all guns, factory sights get dumped for night sights (if not so equipped from the factory)

When I started carrying and was carrying a Sig P226 Mk25, I had a Sig SRT sear set installed and had some to the internals polished to smooth out (not lighten) the trigger.  Done deal after that.

When I tried carryign a Glock for a stretch, it was night sights, a Glock NY-1 spring and a Glock - connector.  The connector was polished to smooth out.  Kept roughly the same factory pull weight, but took some of the mush out of it so it felt more crisp and positive.  In my experience polishing the connector took a little bit of the gritty feelign away too.  After the Glock turned out to be a flop due to it literally not fitting my hand (from index finger to pinky with fingers together, my hand is rather short despite having long fingers and my pinky sits quite uncomfortablyl on the last finger groove, I moved on. 


Next gun up was an HK P2000 V2 LEM.  Shot it stock (with stock white dot sights) for about 1000 rounds before making my minor changes.  I had Meprolight night sights installed and made the following changes to improve trigger pull; installation of V1 light LEM firing pin block spring and V1 light LEM mainspring; I kept the heavier V2 trigger rebound spring.  This brought the pull down from 7 lb to about 5.5 lb and is the equivalent of a factory delivered V7 LEM.  I also swapped the standard P2000 mag release for a larger HK 45 release. 


After the P2000, I added a P30L and P30SK to the HK rotation both wtih V1 Light LEM triggers.  Both had factory night sights only change made was swapping the V1 light LEM trigger rebound spring for the heavier V2 trigger rebound spring to ADD a little bit of weight to the trigger pull and provide a more positive trigger reset as I noticed that after spending  A LOT of time shooting my Sigs with the SRT sear, I would occasionally short stroke the trigger. 

Lastly I land at my current carry gun, a Walther P99, for it all I've done is swap out the factory polymer 3 dot sights for Trijicon night sights and for a stretch I had Talon grip tape on the gun to give better purchase; it has since gotten ratty and been removed and I've been going without since.  The trigger is very similar (albeit slightly smoother and lighter out of the box) to a Sig P22x with an SRT sear.

Now, to dispel a common misnomer, slight trigger modifications as above will not result in prosecution in a clean SD shooting.  Heck, if you're someone who carries a Glock or M&P and want to drop an Apex trigger in rock on.  Having had a tenure in the Attorney General's office and frequently trying cases against them now, I can positively say that they know as much about guns as I know about astrophysics...not much.  Bearing that in mind, if the modification makes the gun do something it's not intended to do (i.e. my former murder client who modified an Intratec DC9 to slam fire), then it's an issue that can land you in hot water.  If you're making a modification that maintains all safety values, etc. that are designed into the weapons system and the modification is something to enhance your ability to hit your intended target, no need to worry in Delaware.  Further point of note, I would advise NOT using a competition type trigger in a carry gun since the adrenaline dump that accompanies a body alarm reaction is going to take away some of your tactile sensitivity; hence the reason I elected to modify my P30 triggers to be slightly heavier.  So if you want to make a minor tweak to your carry gun's trigger to slightly enhance its shootability, go for it, but don't get too crazy.  Be sure to maintain all safety values (drop safety, firing pin/striker block function, etc.) and to make sure that if lightening, you're not going so light as to be able to unintentionally pull the trigger when under stress. 


« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 07:49:35 AM by MarcWinkman » Logged
Radnor
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« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2018, 08:01:31 AM »

FNX45 night sights (on all 3).  That's it.

IMHO the adrenaline dump will make the heavy DA trigger feel like a competition trigger.
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MarcWinkman
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« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2018, 01:32:14 PM »

FNX45 night sights (on all 3).  That's it.

IMHO the adrenaline dump will make the heavy DA trigger feel like a competition trigger.

FNX is a mighty big CCW gun.  Agreed with respect to trigger, but the broader point is minor modifications to trigger aren't an automatic go to jail card so long as safety values are maintained and the function of the gun is not materially changed.  I for one make minor changes that make the trigger have a more positive feel (i.e. definite wall with a crisp break and a positive tactile reset to guard against short stroking). 
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Sigma4506
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« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2018, 03:12:41 PM »

Wow interesting everyone i tell i dropped an APEX trigger in my Glocks 19 and 23 said your Nuts if you carry that - You ll be the 1 in jail along with the criminal /  also have an Apex drop in 9mm barrel for my G23 TO which i find to be better than my stock G19gen-5 --- Kinda leaves you on the fence -  do- don't -maybe -Do you want to take that chance of ending in in Jail - mostly what i get is Call a lawyer he can tell you --At this point i say FARK it  You cant get a definitive answer 100%
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Radnor
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« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2018, 05:03:26 AM »

FNX is a mighty big CCW gun. 

Big gun what?!?  15+1 of .45....  Grin

The public is CLUELESS never see it.  Too interested in their phones.


Back to topic....
You dont think they would TRY to introduce "he put in a hair trigger just to kill that poor church going boy?"
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MarcWinkman
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« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2018, 05:33:13 AM »

FNX is a mighty big CCW gun. 

Big gun what?!?  15+1 of .45....  Grin

The public is CLUELESS never see it.  Too interested in their phones.


Back to topic....
You dont think they would TRY to introduce "he put in a hair trigger just to kill that poor church going boy?"


Not at all.  Prosecutors are pretty non-gun savvy and the fellow that was previously processing firearm evidence was just convicted of theft and fired from DSP.  The only testing that is done is to test fire for function/matching rifling and tool marks.  They don't bother even putting a pistol on a trigger scale.  You have to keep in mind, there are those out there that carry custom built 1911's from the likes of Wilson Combat, Nighthawk Custom, Ed Brown, Heirloom Precision, etc. that have factory triggers down around the 3.5 lb. range and if they had to use said gun in a defensive shooting, they're not going to be on the hook for having an SAO pistol with a super light trigger.  Heck, I tried carrying my Wilson Combat CQB and CQB compact at times, but pretty quickly gave up on it as both have ambi thumb safeties and I would occasionally find that they were swept off during the course of my normal activities, most probably on days where I was in the car for an extended period of time. 
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oldgraygeek
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« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2018, 06:26:10 AM »

I ran this past my High-End Defense Attorney several years ago. I explained the common trope about modifying carry guns, and my concern that my 10mm Glock 29 might be considered excessively powerful as a defensive firearm.
He asked, as if I were on the stand, "Why do you carry that particular weapon?"
"Because I trained with it, and I shoot it well."
"No further questions."

Of course, your lawyer might not be as good as mine... if (s)he isn't, find a better one!
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MarcWinkman
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« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2018, 07:07:12 AM »

I ran this past my High-End Defense Attorney several years ago. I explained the common trope about modifying carry guns, and my concern that my 10mm Glock 29 might be considered excessively powerful as a defensive firearm.
He asked, as if I were on the stand, "Why do you carry that particular weapon?"
"Because I trained with it, and I shoot it well."
"No further questions."

Of course, your lawyer might not be as good as mine... if (s)he isn't, find a better one!


That's good for line of questioning in the event that you're charged with any form of malfeasance.  Actively working in the criminal defense area I can say that if you find yourself in a court room on the witness stand, either it was a bad SD shoot, or you're being civilly sued for wrongful death, in which case your best bet is to make sure that your attorney knows to object to any questions pertaining to the weapon used on grounds of it not being relevant to whether or not you acted in self defense. 

Now for the obligatory disclaimer:  Yes, I am a lawyer.  No, I am not YOUR lawyer...unless you've retained me for a consultation, in which case I am for limited purpose. 
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Cbmarine
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« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2018, 12:03:36 PM »

IIRC, Don West had to counter the prosecutorís assertion that George Zimmerman was trigger-happy (or similar epithet) because he carried one in the chamber.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 03:17:31 PM by Cbmarine » Logged

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SturmRugerSR9
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« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2018, 04:24:17 PM »

Guess I'm "trigger happy" too. I have carried 1 in the chamber for years and years. Have had people tell me I shouldn't. But I say if they don't want to, it's up to them. But I have not intention of being unchambered. The time it takes to draw, chamber a round, aim and shoot, could make the difference between life and death. I opt for the extra seconds to be in my favor, if push comes to shove, so to speak.
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« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2018, 08:45:25 PM »

I was under the Presumption that in self defense case and i was 100%  with in my  rights and not being charged with a crime  -that they still confiscate your Firearm for inspection -to make sure it wasn't modified - So i will  carry my G19 with my apex trigger -

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74 Army vet - Fort Leonardwood MO
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« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2018, 04:33:05 AM »

There are lot's of things that can be done to improve the smoothness and operation of a defense gun, lowering the trigger pull below, say, 5lb is not one.  LEO guns are generally in the range of 8-11lb.
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NormH3
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« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2018, 06:35:56 AM »

Ususally install aftermarket grips that are better suited to me. Everything else stays pretty much stock. I did convert a Beretta PX4 storm sub compact to a decocker model.
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MarcWinkman
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« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2018, 11:58:33 AM »

There are lot's of things that can be done to improve the smoothness and operation of a defense gun, lowering the trigger pull below, say, 5lb is not one.  LEO guns are generally in the range of 8-11lb.


I agree for the most part.  I keep my triggers in something very near to factory specs, or in the case of my HK's factory specs for a different factory trigger option.  (i.e. 5 lb. pull weight with a very positive reset at factory length...no Lazy Wolf short reset or Gray Guns modification).  The Sigs are modified with factory parts and the polishing just smooths out any grittyness from having little burs onthe bearing parts.  As for LE triggers, Newark PD is runnign DA/SA Sigs, DSP runs Sig DAKs with about a 6.5 lb pull, Capitol Police are runnign Gen 4 Glocks (unsure what spring and connector they use), WPD and NCCPD run standard run of the mill M&P's, so I'd say that an 8-11 lb. trigger is overstating it a little bit.
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