Author Topic: Question  (Read 743 times)

Djw2033

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Question
« on: May 15, 2020, 07:24:43 PM »
Hello,
I see it’s been brought up many times but can someone explain to me where in the delcode it states you need to know someone for a year or can’t be family ?

In Delaware constitution it says:
(2) At the same time the person shall file, with the Prothonotary, a certificate of 5 respectable citizens of the county in which the applicant resides at the time of filing the application. The certificate shall clearly state that the applicant is a person of full age, sobriety and good moral character, that the applicant bears a good reputation for peace and good order in the community in which the applicant resides, and that the carrying of a concealed deadly weapon by the applicant is necessary for the protection of the applicant or the applicant’s property, or both. The certificate shall be signed with the proper signatures and in the proper handwriting of each such respectable citizen. 


No where on that or on the reference form itself does it say it can’t be family..

Is there an addendum anyone is aware of?  I ask the AG through email as well

SturmRugerSR9

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Re: Question
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2020, 10:32:12 PM »
Your right. this has been covered before. I took the liberty of copying and pasting it to this question:

2. Background Verification  Fingerprints must be taken by State Bureau of Identification within 45 days prior to filing the application.  For information about hours please call the State Bureau of Identification (SBI) at (302)739-2528.  You are required to submit proof of payment for your fingerprinting, at the time of filing.
Note: If you have been a Delaware resident for less than five (5) years then please submit a certified driving record from your previous state(s) of residence to avoid any delay in processing your application.
3. Have the reference questionnaire completed by five (5) citizens from the County in which you reside.  The citizen cannot be related or reside at the same address as the applicant.  The citizen must know the applicant for a period of no less than one (1) year.
4. Complete the application and have it notarized.  A notary is available at each Prothonotary’s Office. (There is no fee for this service)
5. Photographs  Include two (2) color 2”x 2” official passport photographs of the applicant
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Djw2033

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Re: Question
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2020, 10:50:41 PM »
No I get that and it’s all well and good.

But they can put anything they want on the pages right ?

It doesn’t say anything in the Posted del code / constitution .. so they can’t just add there own provisions without adding an addendum properly.

What’s the point of the code if they can add things that aren’t in there ?

Clarence

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Re: Question
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2020, 02:00:23 AM »
They get to do it because Delaware is “may issue” meaning they can reject any application if the judge does not feel you are a suitable person or if you don’t have a compelling reason to carry. Because the law requires that the five affiants swear that you are of good character, the investigators from the AGs office who make the recommendation to the judge want to see that you have known them at least a year.  If challenged on this in court, I rather suspect it would be upheld. 


Actually it is much easier now than in the past.  Not too many years ago you either had to carry large sums of money or know someone to get the license. Also it used to be (since 1911) a requirement that the character references were from your election district. 

It is quite a pain for new residents but actually much better than in years past.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 12:06:47 PM by Clarence »
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Just Bill

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Re: Question
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2020, 11:24:06 AM »
If you wish to protest, it is your right, but don't expect that permit any time soon.  You are dealing with politicians, 'nuff said.
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Djw2033

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Re: Question
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2020, 02:57:22 PM »
Has anyone been denied because of there references not meeting These standards ?

SturmRugerSR9

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Re: Question
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2020, 11:00:11 PM »
Your question needs to be addressed to the Attorney Generals Office and/or the Superior Court. They are the ones you have to please.
I'D RATHER HAVE A GUN IN MY HANDS, THAN A COP ON THE PHONE!

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Radnor

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Re: Question
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2020, 02:49:33 PM »
Your question needs to be addressed to the Attorney Generals Office

The AG's office will not be cooperative I believe.

I believe (ON HERE) Marc challenged it.  If I recall a lawyer from NJ now Del resident.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 08:20:55 PM by Radnor »
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SturmRugerSR9

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Re: Question
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2020, 01:59:17 PM »
3. Have the reference questionnaire completed by five (5) citizens from the County in which you reside.  The citizen cannot be related or reside at the same address as the applicant.  The citizen must know the applicant for a period of no less than one (1) year.

As this is clearly stated, there should be no question. You may no agree, but you are not compelled to agree, but you are compelled to comply, if you want a DECCW. It doesn't take a law degree to figure that out.
I'D RATHER HAVE A GUN IN MY HANDS, THAN A COP ON THE PHONE!

I reserve the right to not be perfect.

PROTECT THE 2ND AMENDMENT!

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Radnor

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Re: Question
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2020, 08:13:28 PM »
3. Have the reference questionnaire completed by five (5) citizens from the County in which you reside.  The citizen cannot be related or reside at the same address as the applicant.  The citizen must know the applicant for a period of no less than one (1) year.

As this is clearly stated, there should be no question. You may no agree, but you are not compelled to agree, but you are compelled to comply, if you want a DECCW. It doesn't take a law degree to figure that out.

OK, so I'll ask now too.....  WHERE IN DEL CODE 1441 does it have above in RED
Under 1441 at  https://delcode.delaware.gov/title11/c005/sc07/index.shtml for the references it has and I quote....

(2) At the same time the person shall file, with the Prothonotary, a certificate of 5 respectable citizens of the county in which the applicant resides at the time of filing the application. The certificate shall clearly state that the applicant is a person of full age, sobriety and good moral character, that the applicant bears a good reputation for peace and good order in the community in which the applicant resides, and that the carrying of a concealed deadly weapon by the applicant is necessary for the protection of the applicant or the applicant’s property, or both. The certificate shall be signed with the proper signatures and in the proper handwriting of each such respectable citizen.

I realize there's lots of words and I might be tired but I cannot find the residency or 1 year minimum.

I do realize we are a MAY ISSUE State.  And if you dont play by their rules most likely will be denied.  Then would have to get representation and go before the judge to appeal.  Bake to the ops question, WHERE IS IT IN THE LAW?  That's all the OP is asking and  knowing a few of the special investigators, know what they are asking for.


On the reference questionnaire it states cannot be related.  Where is that in the code?  They could print on the questionnaire YOU must fill it out in green ink and the person you give it to must fill it out in purple....


The BS the OP is questioning is on the instructions page (ALONG with green & purple ink - you guys missed it!) and NOT in the CODE.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 09:04:58 PM by Radnor »
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SturmRugerSR9

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Re: Question
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2020, 10:45:25 PM »
Sounds like a lot of BS to me. Either the guy will fill out the application, or he won't. If he fills it out improperly he may forfeit the ability to get a DECCW. He is not hurting anyone but himself. Like cutting off his nose to spite his face as the old saying goes.
 Since the 5 references are suppose to be a reference to some ones character, I'd think you'd have to know someone at least a year to really know them. I have seen people that I have known for more than a year and wouldn't give them a good reference for anything, but certainly would not give reference knowing someone for less that a year. Another old saying, a tiger seldom changes it's stripes. People seldom change their attitudes or personalities either.
I'D RATHER HAVE A GUN IN MY HANDS, THAN A COP ON THE PHONE!

I reserve the right to not be perfect.

PROTECT THE 2ND AMENDMENT!

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Djw2033

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Re: Question
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2020, 12:56:54 AM »
My argument to that would be is it better to know someone for 10 years but only interact with them 5 times ?

Or someone you known for 6 months and see 4 times a week?

Are they going to have a “how much do you know about your reference” spectrum next ? :P ::) ::)

Cbmarine

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Re: Question
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2020, 02:11:48 AM »
My argument to that would be is it better to know someone for 10 years but only interact with them 5 times ?

Or someone you known for 6 months and see 4 times a week?

Are they going to have a “how much do you know about your reference” spectrum next ? :P ::) ::)
FWIW, back in 2012, I had only known two of my references for six months.  I added “daily contact” to the references. I don’t recall the one year rule back then. It may help if the OP can find references who hold CCDW permits. 
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SturmRugerSR9

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Re: Question
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2020, 02:44:48 PM »
Back when I got my DECCW, I sent in 6 reference, because depending on when they processed the application, one of my references would be in Florida for the winter. The people I had as references I had know 5 of them for 20 years or more, and 1 of them for 5 years, and had worked with him for 5 years. 1 of them was a retired police officer and 1 was a long time fire chief, 1 a retired school teacher, 1 a well known business owner, and 1 a neighbor, retired USAF, and small business owner living 2 houses from mine.

Now they are strong references.
I'D RATHER HAVE A GUN IN MY HANDS, THAN A COP ON THE PHONE!

I reserve the right to not be perfect.

PROTECT THE 2ND AMENDMENT!

DECCW Permit Holder
Former PA (non-resident) Permit Holder
NRA Member
USAF Veteran
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Christian/Conservative
I cling to my GOD and my Gun

RLS

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Re: Question
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2020, 08:23:07 PM »
Djw2033 has a valid concern. By what authority are the rules changed? We are expected to abide by the law, the same is expected of the state.

Contact your state senator and representative and ask them.