Author Topic: where can I find ..  (Read 15731 times)

Sigarms12

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Re: where can I find ..
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2010, 10:35:06 AM »
No, this section was what I was referring to:  

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons
    in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

This to me makes it sound like as long as you are lawfully carrying you should be ok. A CCW Permit should cover you.
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Moosie

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Re: where can I find ..
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2010, 11:15:00 AM »
Oh, in that case, yes.  I would agree. 

Moosie
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Radnor

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Re: where can I find ..
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2010, 12:44:51 PM »
I've sent the whole section of code off to John Thompson for an opinion.

I see most mornings a guy who is a judge, gonna run it past him too next week.
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fdegree

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Re: where can I find ..
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2010, 08:31:48 PM »
If I am interpreting this correctly, it sounds as if you are permitted to carry in ANY federal building, EXCEPT a court house, PROVIDED you are carrying lawfully.

The last section (h) states no one can be convicted for violating this law if the there is no sign posted, conspicuously, at the entrance.  I don't go to the post office too often...do they have signs posted?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 08:34:13 PM by fdegree »
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Radnor

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Re: where can I find ..
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2010, 08:41:54 PM »
That IS what we are questioning.  That's the way I read it too.

Now for what you posted (h).....  The post office I go to has a sign up stating robbing a postal employee blah blah blah.  There is NOTHING stating I cannot bring a weapon on the property.  The other sign is dealing with the items you cannot mail etc.
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Hawkeye

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Re: where can I find ..
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2010, 03:13:09 AM »
I found this on another site:
Quote
Post Offices (39 CFR 232.1(l)). While this is been a topic of discussion, whereas carrying is actually permitted by 18 USC 930(p) and, since the Post Office was privatized in 1972, that 39 USC 410 exempts the Post Office from 18 USC 930(p) and that 39 CFR 232.1(l) is a rule from a private entity… It’s recommended that you err on the side of caution and not carry in a Post Office until such a time that the law has been tested and clarified.

39 USC 410 can be found here.

http://vlex.com/vid/sec-application-other-laws-19236178

I am not a lawyer so I do not quite understand everything they are trying to say so judge for yourself.

They are also discussing this topic over here.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/Concealed-carry-in-a-post-office-may-lead-to-rude-awakening

It makes for interesting reading.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 03:16:23 AM by Hawkeye »

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fdegree

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Re: where can I find ..
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2010, 03:40:20 AM »
Now for what you posted (h).....  The post office I go to has a sign up stating robbing a postal employee blah blah blah.  There is NOTHING stating I cannot bring a weapon on the property.  The other sign is dealing with the items you cannot mail etc.

Perhaps the connection I'm going to make within the following question is a bit of a stretch, but...
Do you think our interpretation of the law is accurate, since the post office does not have a sign posted?

I'm thinking, if this law is intended to disallow carrying a weapon in any federal building, then the post office should have a sign posted, since you cannot be convicted unless there is a sign.  But, the government doesn't always think logically.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 03:47:31 AM by fdegree »
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Moosie

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Re: where can I find ..
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2010, 10:54:42 AM »
I frequent three different post offices.... there is NO SIGN anywhere on any of them about not being able to carry a firearm on the property.  Oddly enough, there is also no "Federal Property" sign anywhere either. 

Moosie
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fdegree

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Re: where can I find ..
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2010, 12:05:43 PM »
I found this on another site:
Quote
Post Offices (39 CFR 232.1(l)). While this is been a topic of discussion, whereas carrying is actually permitted by 18 USC 930(p) and, since the Post Office was privatized in 1972, that 39 USC 410 exempts the Post Office from 18 USC 930(p) and that 39 CFR 232.1(l) is a rule from a private entity… It’s recommended that you err on the side of caution and not carry in a Post Office until such a time that the law has been tested and clarified.

39 USC 410 can be found here.

http://vlex.com/vid/sec-application-other-laws-19236178

I am not a lawyer so I do not quite understand everything they are trying to say so judge for yourself.

If I am interpreting this 39 USC 410 law correctly...it has no bearing on this law posted by Radnor (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/usc.cgi?ACTION=RETRIEVE&FILE=$$xa$$busc18.wais&start=1736700&SIZE=6681&TYPE=TEXT)

The 39 USC 410 sounds as if it only pertains to the services, employees and contractors of the post office.  It doesn't sound as though it has anything to do with their property, and other laws associated to that property.  But, maybe I missed something.
Violence, when there is an alternative, is immoral.
Violence, when there is no alternative, is survival.
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fdegree

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Re: where can I find ..
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2010, 12:45:09 PM »

I know, this is the section that is frequently posted and referred to.  But, I have something else to add.

Quote
(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in
a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to
do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1
year, or both.

 ...

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to--

        ...

        (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons
         in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

To me, this sounds as if...you had been hunting, and walked into a post office, with a firearm that you were using for hunting purposed, it is perfectly OK.  Keep in mind, as I understand it, Delaware has a handgun hunting season.  Now, I am not a hunter, but this is what I have been told.  So, walking into a post office, with a handgun, after hunting with that same handgun, should be perfectly legal.

Now for the other part of the wording..."other lawful purposes" means, according to the dictionary, "other reasons allowed by law".  So, it could certainly be translated as..."legitimately carrying a firearm for other reasons allowed by law".  In Delaware, we are legally allowed to open carry...so I would interpret this as allowing concealed and open carrying inside a post office...the need for CCW would be mute.

Also, keep in mind...no sign = no conviction

I just thought I would throw all of this out there for added discussion, do not take this as legal advice.

As everyone else has done, I, too will add my disclaimer...I  AM  NOT  A  LAWYER...if you follow these interpretations, you do so at your own risk.
Violence, when there is an alternative, is immoral.
Violence, when there is no alternative, is survival.
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A battle avoided cannot be lost.
-Sun Tzu-

Radnor

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Re: where can I find ..
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2010, 12:53:35 PM »
Delaware handgun hunting...  Single shot or revolvers. Barrel length 5.75 to 12.5 inches.  Open carried in either a holster or sling.  Shooting straight walled ammo 357 or larger.   ;D
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